Local Pools and Civilization

[Sevenless]

Many people complain about global pools, but it's important to distinguish why people don't like them and what purpose they serve from a game design point. This is not my idea by any means, but I wanted a chance to talk about it as a separate concept based on its merits and flaws and not just in a sea of discussion on why the current system is bad. (Using fate curio/glimmers as examples)

Initial problem:

Global pools are implemented as a mechanic to prevent bots from completely distorting the global supply of curios. Namely, if bots can produce enough of high tier curio X, it now completely destroys the ability to balance curios without taking into account this massive over-supply that wasn't originally intended. We saw this in W5 with the initial rise of forage botting when botted flotsam were literally overflowing some faction's storage, while the average player would see one every other day or so.

Current situation:

Foraging is most fun if you get surprises. But if we allow unlimited supply of all forageable curios, that means to keep balance in check none of them can be great. This more or less describes all "normal" forage curios. So we have a global supply situation where botters get a good chunk of the supply, and scraps are spread out to the average forager. At least, that's the impression players have of the system regardless of whether or not it's true. Either way, botters or even just extremely active foragers drain the entire world's supply of a curio from their chosen location.

Suggestion:

Rather than a single global pool, "fate grade" curios should be handled by many smaller pools covering the world map. The ability to tinker with the amount of curios being produced is maintained which addresses a major mechanical worry about A+ forage curios. Botting can and still will happen, but the importance is the limitation it applies to where botters "ruin". Because botting no longer disrupts foraging on a global scale, but only on a local one, more of the curio distribution will be reserved for players. The smaller these pool areas cover individually, the more efficient this will be at limiting botting impact neighbours.

Implications:

This system significantly boosts the value of either living in remote areas, or taking long foraging treks to go to them. I'd like to think this would increase the usefulness of uninhabited areas for the playerbase as a whole, and could possibly serve as the start of "reasons to live in remote areas". Alternatively, if spreading players out too much is considered undesirable due to limited social interaction options, the concept of "Civilization Level" could actually be tied into this mechanic. In areas with completely full forage pools life could be more dangerous, possibly more wondrous as well if so desired by events and creatures. But as players consistently start to empty the forage pools, it could tone down the wildness of the region as a measure of how well traveled it is.

Edit:

As to the size I'm thinking of, maybe 10x10 minimaps? 20x20? If we're sticking with a global production value (basically the system we have atm) it would randomly hand out glimmers to pools that aren't full. Bots would run their local pool dry, but every area players forage would be getting an even (+/- distribution rng) slice of the global pool production. And you'd always have the option of wandering out into the wilderness to tap untouched pools. You could weight it so almost full pools get preferred, but I think players want to have some glimmers near their house. If any pool was valid except full ones and it was evenly distributed, I feel that would make players the happiest.

[shubla]

Whatever the fix devs have 3 days to implement it or else it will be another miserable world start.

[Foarl]

Whatever the fix devs have 3 days to implement it or else it will be another miserable world start.

Nah, 2 weeks before the average player will have meaningful access to anything global pooled.

[wolf1000wolf]

So the main thing about local pools vs global pools is that botters have to put in more work if they want the same results, right?

Are we banking on the extra effort involved not being worth it?

[Sevenless]

So the main thing about local pools vs global pools is that botters have to put in more work if they want the same results, right?

Are we banking on the extra effort involved not being worth it?

In order for botters to take "your" glimmers, they would have to literally be bot foraging in your cave. To get access to the entire world's glimmers they would have to be botting in every cave system. It's definitely not feasible to bot on that level with the size of haven worlds.

However, to actually get a decent amount of glimmers you'd need to be travelling and foraging across multiple cave systems to tap into more pools.

[wolf1000wolf]

So the main thing about local pools vs global pools is that botters have to put in more work if they want the same results, right?

Are we banking on the extra effort involved not being worth it?

In order for botters to take "your" glimmers, they would have to literally be bot foraging in your cave. To get access to the entire world's glimmers they would have to be botting in every cave system. It's definitely not feasible to bot on that level with the size of haven worlds.

However, to actually get a decent amount of glimmers you'd need to be travelling and foraging across multiple cave systems to tap into more pools.

Oh I see, you're advocating for much smaller local areas than I was thinking.

[VDZ]

Whatever the fix devs have 3 days to implement it or else it will be another miserable world start.

The fact that I won't be able to get any glimmers after week 1 sucks, but it's not the end of the world.

[Burinn]

Whatever the fix devs have 3 days to implement it or else it will be another miserable world start.

The fact that I won't be able to get any glimmers after week 1 sucks, but it's not the end of the world.

It is the end of the world right now

[meus]

I see also two other options:
- remove the said "A+" forageables if they present a real problem
- nerf the "A+" forageables to "slightly-above-average" with no pool. Instead, add a minor chance for the new ones, when picked, to produce an additional item with the "A+" quality (much like how the Itsy Bitsy Spider appears).

These would achieve the same goal - uniform distribution and availability across the world. (NB: "none" is also uniform)

But my guess is that the concept behind pools has been, in the first place, these resources to not be uniformly distributed but a "first come, first serve" of sorts.

[Sevenless]

I see also two other options:
- remove the said "A+" forageables if they present a real problem
- nerf the "A+" forageables to "slightly-above-average" with no pool. Instead, add a minor chance for the new ones, when picked, to produce an additional item with the "A+" quality (much like how the Itsy Bitsy Spider appears).

These would achieve the same goal - uniform distribution and availability across the world. (NB: "none" is also uniform)

But my guess is that the concept behind pools has been, in the first place, these resources to not be uniformly distributed but a "first come, first serve" of sorts.

They've more or less tried that, but turns out people really like getting super nice things once in a while. Nerfing them and Taking them out of foraging (which is what people effectively felt the fate system did) made people unhappy with foraging and more or less removed it from endgame activities as a result.