Fix Crabs

[Barbamaus]

Crabs are way too deadly:


I was looking for "Crab Roe x2" for a fisherman quest. I died before finding even one.
Right now having to pick up crabs is way too dangerous. And it's not only bad if done "on a massive scale" (like harvesting bee skeps is).

Here's a few ideas:
- Crabs do damage twice, when picking and when cracking. Hedgehogs work similarly, but by having a corpse you can avoid the picking damage by running them over. So Crabs should get a corpse like most other animals, especially considering they are a 2-slot animal (and all other 2slot animals have carcassess).
- If carcasses are not an option, how about an item that allows you to "spike them" and pick them up safely? It would probably be a one handed tool, that allows kill the crab as you pick it up, avoiding you any damage.
- Crab damage needs to be nerfed. It's already slow to heal and can get infected. It makes no sense that you can get 25 damage from a single crab! Especially if nothing is done, the crab damage shouldn't have two digits IMO.

[I know gloves help, but not that much if you need to pick a lot of crabs for a quest].

[Mazikeen]

I think the answer here was to stop before you took lethal damage and wait for some healing.

[Audiosmurf]

Use gloves, use ant paste, pick up less crabs. Not a real problem.

You don't only avoid the 'picking' damage by killing a hedgehog before you pick it up, you avoid all damage, as the second one is on 'wring neck'.

Part of what makes crabs distinct is the cost you pay for their resources, in wounds, so adding a way to totally avoid that is probably not gonna happen. They're specifically set up, in my opinion, to disallow the same type of cheese you can do with hedgehogs. That is, them not having a corpse isn't an oversight, I believe.

[stya]

Kinda hard to believe you didn't suicide an alt just to try get this changed.

I also doubt you got 25 damage from a single crab, it just stacked.

[Mazikeen]

Kinda hard to believe you didn't suicide an alt just to try get this changed.

I also doubt you got 25 damage from a single crab, it just stacked.

Good eye detective. Note the lack of even nettle clothing on the body, a sad attempt for sure.

[VDZ]

While I think this is hilarious and you need to git gud, I do agree that the inevitability of crab damage leads to unfun gameplay (particularly considering the wounds will get infected the moment you step into a swamp). The only correct line of play is to abuse an alt to pick up the crabs for you which is an extremely cheesy way to completely negate the disadvantage but sadly the only way not to get seriously screwed over.

[Audiosmurf]

I've done so many crabs, it's seriously not a problem imo. Ant paste is easy to make and fast, will heal them overnight if you're in a bed.

[Barbamaus]

I think the answer here was to stop before you took lethal damage and wait for some healing.

Use gloves, use ant paste, pick up less crabs. Not a real problem.

I don't think you get why this is an issue.
Crabs are a critter, that anyone can pick. They are required for starter-credos quests (fisherman), and especially in the case of crab roe it's not a common drop which requires you to kill several of them.
They do lots of damage, you can't really avoid it in an efficient way, it takes ages to heal, and it lowers an ability score. There's very few things in this game as punishing as picking up crabs (seal finger comes to mind), and this is the only one you can get with a fresh character.

You don't only avoid the 'picking' damage by killing a hedgehog before you pick it up, you avoid all damage, as the second one is on 'wring neck'.

Even better. So 0 dmg from hedgehog and double from crabs? why?

Part of what makes crabs distinct is the cost you pay for their resources, in wounds, so adding a way to totally avoid that is probably not gonna happen.

Unless I'm missing something, crab's resources are pretty much crap. Their claws are bad, their shells are almost useless, and their meat not exceptional either. Plus that doesn't avoid crab farming, it only makes it a "get a random alt to pick them up" kind of chore.

They're specifically set up, in my opinion, to disallow the same type of cheese you can do with hedgehogs. That is, them not having a corpse isn't an oversight, I believe.

Considering most hunting allows cheesing, this seems out of place, especially considering how little they are worth.

Kinda hard to believe you didn't suicide an alt just to try get this changed.

I also doubt you got 25 damage from a single crab, it just stacked.

It's not like I went crab hunting for fun...
Obviously I used an alt, and paid little attention to their hit points, but I didn't set out to suicide in order to get this changed. I truly believed I would get the roe after 4-5 crabs. But just the fact that I HAD to use an alt (even if it didn't die) shows the issue here.

You want crabs to stay that way? Then remove "crab roe" from quests, since it seems to have a pretty low drop chance considering I cracked open about 14 crabs with that alt, and didn't get a single piece.

Also why are you so against this? It's a similar problem to bee stings from bee skeps, with the difference that wax is a way more valuable item than anything crabs give... hell even a squirrel is more valuable than a crab.

While I think this is hilarious and you need to git gud, I do agree that the inevitability of crab damage leads to unfun gameplay (particularly considering the wounds will get infected the moment you step into a swamp). The only correct line of play is to abuse an alt to pick up the crabs for you which is an extremely cheesy way to completely negate the disadvantage but sadly the only way not to get seriously screwed over.

He gets it. This mechanic only leads to alt abusing, which is bad game design.

[Audiosmurf]

Unless I'm missing something, crab's resources are pretty much crap.

Yes, you are. Crabshell gilding is one of the only early ones for cooking & helps with carpentry early too, chitin hooks are necessary for lure fishing (access to which makes completing Fisherman much easier,) additionally crab meat is much more useful as fishing bait than as food but it's not terrible as early variety food if you're shooting at str.

There's very few things in this game as punishing as picking up crabs (seal finger comes to mind)

Literally both healed with ant paste, which you can get within like 20 minutes of starting the game.

Even better. So 0 dmg from hedgehog and double from crabs? why?

You're trying to make an argument for balancing around cheese as the baseline.

Considering most hunting allows cheesing, this seems out of place, especially considering how little they are worth.

You're still trying to make an argument for balancing around cheese. Primarily, I've come to expect that jorbtar tend to focus on developing/balancing that type of mechanical stuff around the game being Played As Intended, (that is, a player using no alts no bots) with the exception being to kill cheesy techniques and stuff like that. (Such as giving animals the ability to smash structures, causing animals to run when taking damage and they can't path to you, making it so you can't run over swans, etc.)

I understand the issue you're trying to communicate, I just disagree that it's a problem in any way except for fresh baby newbs (who learn quickly not to pick up crabs,) and people who Literally Choose (you) for it to be a problem. It takes a couple days to get gloves, you can get ant paste day 1, you don't need to start credos immediately, nor rocket right through them, etc. You know you can just drop a hard credo quest, right?

I think at least in part, crab caress is an implicit and early suggestion that you might not be able to brute force/rush through Everything in the game.

Though, I do think there could be a crab-cracker to avoid the second damage tick.



(Edit: I'm looking for this old post where Loftar said he wasn't into the idea of crab damage being completely preventable)

[eliminator]

I think the answer here was to stop before you took lethal damage and wait for some healing.

No, the answer is exploiting, of course. You use alts to pick up and crack crabs.