Season rework

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Season rework

Postby Barbamaus » Thu May 06, 2021 7:45 pm

Dear Devs, the current season system is a mess.
Spring, summer, and fall differences are barely noticeable mechanically, with foragers being slightly affected by them. Winter feels just like something you have to wait out, or that you can ignore completely if you're not a farmer (considering now it's short, so u don't really need to hunt in those 5 days). And treeplanters get screwed for most of the year.

What can it be done to improve it?

I see two main options:
  • Make seasons less important, focusing on the aesthetic aspect.
  • Make seasons more realistic, and matter a lot more.
So let's see what it could be done, for each of those options.

Seasons for beauty
Seasons don't necessarily have to introduce many new mechanics. They can simply give the game a nice new look that changes over time. The foliage colors of autumn, the snow and ice in winter, and lots of flowers in spring.
Gameplay wouldn't change much over the year, and people could just ignore it or enjoy the view.
The only "real" difference could be the snow and ice covering land and water in winter, which can be likable but doesn't change your everyday activities too much. Seasons could all last the same, maybe a month each. A new player spawning in winter would have the same experience as someone spawning in summer.
That would be a perfectly fine way to have seasons.


Seasons for gameplay
If seasons are supposed to be something to take into account, not just a pretty thing to look at, then they should be a lot more seasonal mechanics.
First of all, you'd have to decide if you want it to be more about realism, or more about "random fun stuff".
  • If realism is a priority, then all seasons should last the same. Crops should be seasonal, animal breeding should be affected, things you can forage should change a lot more, and winter should become a challenging time you need to prepare for. I believe you tried this already by creating a shortage of things in winter: no crops, no tree seeds, and fewer animals around. Unfortunately this made winter boring, leading to it being only 4-5 days long to prevent people from quitting for its entire duration. In order to have a challenge, you need to be pushed to take a somewhat dangerous action in order to avoid a worse outcome. In your first announcement about season you mentioned temperature: by itself it wouldn't be enough, because the solution would just be never leave camp in winter, and maybe keep a fire up, which are not just not-fun things, but also so easy to do that they don't create a challenge. Temperature would work only if you are pushed to go outside anyway: the easiest thing to do would be adding some very valuable winter resource that pushes people to fight the cold to get it. Alternatively, but this would require some major changes, a real need for food and decay mechanics for fresh products, which would push you out of your villages during winter to hunt for fresh meat; hibernating animals should be found in cave systems, making hunting in winter more of a treasure hunt in caves than a random stroll around the woods. Maybe even some tracking system could be added, eventually. This wouldn't be necessarily fun, but it would be a challenge (kinda like wounds are, even though they are a very easy challenge after just a couple of days)
  • If realism is not that important, then more "fantasy" things could be added. Many seasonal plants, including crops or trees/bushes that only grow in winter would keep farmers busy; season-themed animals and monsters (animated snowballs/snowman, walking flower-creatures in spring, leaf monsters in fall...) to make hunting more interesting all year long. Useful recipes made seasonal reagents (from above mentioned plants/animals but also from things we already have like snow or autumn leaves). Things like these would make seasons more important and more fun, without adding challenges.

In either case, it would be better than now.
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Re: Season rework

Postby Zentetsuken » Thu May 06, 2021 8:01 pm

Here is literally the only thing that needs to change about seasons

Make winter the same length as Fall and Spring

make ALL the snow appear within 1 ingame day

make ALL the snow disappear within 1 ingame day


Massive snowfalls and melts are totally normal irl, having a massive snowfall accumulate from nothing in hours happens every year, having massive fast melting on even untouched ground happens every year

this patchy shit is retarded

Winter isn't bad, it's the retarded snow-accumulating and melting times that are bad
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Re: Season rework

Postby Barbamaus » Thu May 06, 2021 8:06 pm

Zentetsuken wrote:Here is literally the only thing that needs to change about seasons

Make winter the same length as Fall and Spring

make ALL the snow appear within 1 ingame day

make ALL the snow disappear within 1 ingame day


Massive snowfalls and melts are totally normal irl, having a massive snowfall accumulate from nothing in hours happens every year, having massive fast melting on even untouched ground happens every year

this patchy shit is retarded

Winter isn't bad, it's the retarded snow-accumulating and melting times that are bad


Agreed on the snow, but how is winter not bad?
At first they did make it as long as spring and fall, and people would just stop playing because of it. Especially everyone focused on farming but also some hunters... why play if there's nothing to do?
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Re: Season rework

Postby vatas » Thu May 06, 2021 8:06 pm

Zentetsuken wrote:Here is literally the only thing that needs to change about seasons

Make winter the same length as Fall and Spring

make ALL the snow appear within 1 ingame day

make ALL the snow disappear within 1 ingame day


Massive snowfalls and melts are totally normal irl, having a massive snowfall accumulate from nothing in hours happens every year, having massive fast melting on even untouched ground happens every year

this patchy shit is retarded

Winter isn't bad, it's the retarded snow-accumulating and melting times that are bad

Didn't devs do most of that for the last winter in the previous world?
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Re: Season rework

Postby Zampfeo » Thu May 06, 2021 8:11 pm

I like that seasons affect the gameplay, but it's current implementation is sloppy in some areas. It's a nice change of pace when fall rolls around and everyone starts clamoring for morels and grubs to use in autumn steaks and grub pies. I don't think wide, sweeping changes are necessary. Just some changes to address the biggest issues. For example, conifer trees and root vegetables should be growable year-round. Winter should be more interesting. There should be alternatives to toad butter. etc. etc.
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Re: Season rework

Postby Zentetsuken » Thu May 06, 2021 8:15 pm

Barbamaus wrote:Agreed on the snow, but how is winter not bad?
At first they did make it as long as spring and fall, and people would just stop playing because of it. Especially everyone focused on farming but also some hunters... why play if there's nothing to do?


Winter has tons of content now. Foragables, stotes, fast hunting on sleds (I think this is desireable for the pvp bois too)

When it used to be longer it was shit because it had very little content and the snow melted for days after it was finished

the BIG shitter season is actually spring because you have to dig snow off all your shit and it has the least amount of season specific content, while still being plagued by melting snow, half frozen water, empty swamps, etc.
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Re: Season rework

Postby Foarl » Thu May 06, 2021 8:23 pm

Zentetsuken wrote:
Barbamaus wrote:Agreed on the snow, but how is winter not bad?
At first they did make it as long as spring and fall, and people would just stop playing because of it. Especially everyone focused on farming but also some hunters... why play if there's nothing to do?


Winter has tons of content now. Foragables, stotes, fast hunting on sleds (I think this is desireable for the pvp bois too)

When it used to be longer it was shit because it had very little content and the snow melted for days after it was finished

the BIG shitter season is actually spring because you have to dig snow off all your shit and it has the least amount of season specific content, while still being plagued by melting snow, half frozen water, empty swamps, etc.


Haven encourages specializing. Foraging/hunting doesn't make up for farmers/treeplanters unable to do anything. Alchemists and cooks can't either if you didn't stockpile enough, which is fair enough but not exactly fun to do.
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Re: Season rework

Postby Barbamaus » Thu May 06, 2021 8:33 pm

Zentetsuken wrote:Winter has tons of content now. Foragables, stotes, fast hunting on sleds (I think this is desireable for the pvp bois too)


That's not tons of content. That's a few foragebles, one animal (in exchange for plenty others), and one way to move around since you can't use boats anymore.
Still way too little to make winter worth playing.
Also:
Foarl wrote:Haven encourages specializing. Foraging/hunting doesn't make up for farmers/treeplanters unable to do anything. Alchemists and cooks can't either if you didn't stockpile enough, which is fair enough but not exactly fun to do.
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Re: Season rework

Postby jiuribu » Sat May 08, 2021 4:10 pm

remove winter entirely
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