satiations bad because many foods

[SnuggleSnail]

I like the satiation system other than how quickly it regenerates forcing you to eat so often if you're tryharding, but I think it has a big issue in that how the satiation system works is largely determined by how many good foods there are in the game. Whenever you guys add another food I think to myself "oh boy, I hope it's garbage so there isn't another thing everybody needs to grind". I think the recent pelican pouch & stuffed bird exemplify this pretty well, they're both kinda dank con food which is typically the hardest stat for tryhards.

Because of the two aforementioned foods, next world in the early stages of the game traditional hunting will be a lot less productive/useful, because smoked sausages(which I personally like a lot) will probably not be as good, even though the super tryhards will eat both. IMO, the game gets a little bit worse for grinders whenever a new food is added. To reiterate, I think the satiations system is fine, but doesn't mesh well with arbitrarily adding a bunch of foods without really thinking about it, which is something you guys seem to want to do.

There should be 3-5 main foods per stat per early/mid/late game that you intend for people to eat, and everything else should be garbage if you intend to keep satiations.

[azrid]

Disagree
I think it creates a market for these products to be bought and sold.
Now you can also sell pelican beaks on top of morels.
The harder it becomes for grinders the more they will look towards the markets to fulfill their needs.
More player interaction in trade the more foods like this they add.
Haven needs to go even heavier into this direction!

[SnuggleSnail]

You could also say it being less fun to make a fighting character will result in there being less fighting characters will result in there being less fights will result in the top grinders having even less incentive to buy shit from the plebs. I don't think either of us are good enough at haven economics to know which will have a greater impact for sure.

What we can say pretty much for sure is that the current trajectory will result in a greater disparity between average fighters and the top grinders, as well making character development a greater time sink - which I think most people will agree is bad.

Also there being intended foods fighters are supposed to eat is not mutually exclusive with the idea of encouraging trade for ingredients. Pelican garbage is just an example, and nobody is buying it anyway... So it's kinda moot.

[Archiplex]

because smoked sausages(which I personally like a lot) will probably not be as good, even though the super tryhards will eat both.

isn't the entire premise on this already assuming you are mega tryharding, as it assumes you're making enough of each "good" food to fully satiate on each day?

[SnuggleSnail]

not everybody is a mega-tryhard, and I think making the gameplay grindier for mega-tryhards is probably less fun for them even if they feel incentivized to engage with it

[Archiplex]

not everybody is a mega-tryhard, and I think making the gameplay grindier for mega-tryhards is probably less fun for them even if they feel incentivized to engage with it

It's an interesting topic, I think. For the casual players introducing new "good" food is nice if they're not too hard to make- packed pouch is a great example of being a cool addition for newer players, as plenty of the con+2 recipes are ludicrously easy to make. For "hardcore" players, it becomes yet another food people need to max out (need is a strong word here, imo) when doing their eating- but this is only really relevant if you're actually even eating the (that is, ALL the 'good' ones) foods to a high enough satiation, which i can confidently say most people who play this game (even who take it semi-seriously) don't really do consistently. Which means the only people who really suffer from a 'new' food being added, are people who try to maximize their gains from currently existing food.

So, I think that sort of begs the question- should we really care if people who want to optimize everything about the game particularly enjoy doing so? At a certain point, doing too much work to squeeze out efficiency is something that will already drain the fun out of any game. Yeah sure, they might just bot it if it's too annoying, but I suppose botting anything has stopped being a concern years ago, so who cares.

[azrid]

You could also say it being less fun to make a fighting character will result in there being less fighting characters will result in there being less fights will result in the top grinders having even less incentive to buy shit from the plebs. I don't think either of us are good enough at haven economics to know which will have a greater impact for sure.

I think its not fun to make a fighting character with only a handful of foods to eat. I would rather get to a respectable level of stats with having more different foods available to me. It also promotes people with lower food qualities getting more stats.

I don't think either of us are good enough at haven economics to know which will have a greater impact for sure.

I think we have great examples for multiple worlds how annoying/hard to acquire food ingredients such as seal meat and morels have boosted trade and kept it alive and well.
I think limiting or stopping the development of this new bridge between new players and top grinders is a critical error in getting more players hooked to the game.

What we can say pretty much for sure is that the current trajectory will result in a greater disparity between average fighters and the top grinders, as well making character development a greater time sink - which I think most people will agree is bad.

These top grinders are already on the way out of this world. Former 1v1 god has been trying to s**l his character.
There aren't enough top grinders out there who are consistent enough to last into lateworld.
You don't need to be concerned.
Hearthland always gets inherited by the people that are most consistent through the world not who grinds the hardest early game.

Also there being intended foods fighters are supposed to eat is not mutually exclusive with the idea of encouraging trade for ingredients. Pelican garbage is just an example, and nobody is buying it anyway... So it's kinda moot.

More ingredients to gather means greater difficulty. No one wants to gather all those morels by themselves.
Same goes for all the new and amazing fighter foods they are going to add.
I am sure many mid and low level players got amazing upgrades for their groups during morel season.
This is the most consistent trade we can hope for after spiralling nerf.

Clearly you see value in pelican beaks as do I.
Just because something is not yet traded doesn't mean its not a good trade product.
People will discover what they need at their own pace and move the markets in that direction.

[SnuggleSnail]

A lot of your points are really bad, but I'm not arguing in favor or against pretty much anything you're talking about. All I want is food, the thing a majority of a lot of people's play-time revolves around, to be made with gameplay in mind not LARP and RNG stat application.

[Archiplex]

A lot of your points are really bad, but I'm not arguing in favor or against pretty much anything you're talking about. All I want is food, the thing a majority of a lot of people's play-time revolves around, to be made with gameplay in mind not LARP and RNG stat application.

probably worth actually explaining why instead of just trying to get people to assume you're right about something, especially since i doubt jorb/loftar can follow your (unstated) train of logic

[azrid]

A lot of your points are really bad, but I'm not arguing in favor or against pretty much anything you're talking about. All I want is food, the thing a majority of a lot of people's play-time revolves around, to be made with gameplay in mind not LARP and RNG stat application.

Use shublas food service and consider contributing.
You dont have to torture your brain thinking about it yourself if you don't want to.
Thanks to all the new foods people who like cooking are highly valued members of society in haven.