Make PVP opt-in only

[Zentetsuken]

"But there needs to be some means of conflict resolution"

- Jorbs lazy, thoughtless, kneejerk response to this idea, as repeated multiple times on stream




Let me break down why this response is retarded.

1. For the first few months of the world when large power factions are actually playing the game and actively PVPing, almost all of their PVP is already practically opt-in only. The rivaling factions make scheduled PVP events almost daily and attend meteor fights expecting pvp. I would be pretty surprised if any PVP lover who engages in these activities would protest that even the odd unscheduled random encounter and gank-attempt would be considered "unconsensual" or "uninvited." PVP for people who play this game almost exclusively for PVP is almost always invited, expected and enjoyed. This group of individuals makes up a very, very small percent of the total haven population.

2. People who are NOT interested in PVP, are not competent in PVP, are new to the game, or simply enjoy the non-PVP aspects of haven content make up the overwhelming majority of the total haven population. If and when somebody in this category is ganked, threatened, sieged or attacked in any way they already have incredibly limited options for conflict resolution.

During the first few months of the game when the PVP-lovers are still active, a non-PVP lover has 2 options for conflict resolution -

option 1 - ask somebody who is interested in PVP and probably doesn't like the people who are attacking them for help
option 2 - pay real money in the form of hats or tokens to the aggressor

or die

During the last 7-8 months of the game when the PVP-lovers are no longer playing the game, a non-PVP lover has exactly 1 option for conflict resolution -

option 1 - pay real money in the form of hats or tokens to the aggressor

or die


Making PVP opt-in only will practically guarantee a longer lasting and more invested player population, and will not interfere with the current game mechanics in any way. People who love PVP will still be able to PVP and will notice absolutely no difference in their gameplay. There will only be positive changes to gameplay that will make the game more fun for more players and allow them to invest more time in to the game.






I will also quickly cover another kneejerk response to this suggestion, as repeated multiple times on stream

"but what about people who grief with claims and other non-PVP mechanics?"




What about them? There is already no form of conflict resolution and almost no divine intervention outside of insanely game-breaking exploits (sometimes). Why would anybody suddenly expect the developers to start caring about griefing once PVP is removed? The broken, extortiony forms of conflict resolution that the developers actively encourage with the current state of the game would still exist. All forms of griefing using broken mechanics and exploits are still possible and likely used in the game right now. If not having the ability to actively kill people without repercussion for over 3/4s of a world's lifespan drives some people to exploring non-PVP related ways to upset people, isn't that still an improvement? Don't you think it would take more time and effort to upset much less people if aggressors had to rely on bizarre tactics like this?

Perhaps this part is debatable but I think bringing up this argument as a rebuttal to removing PVP is fundamentally dishonest.

[telum12]

-1

This addresses none of the issues pvp is meant to solve.

Please stop whining and start whitenight larp faction already jfc

[Zentetsuken]

-1

This addresses none of the issues pvp is meant to solve.

Please stop whining and start whitenight larp faction already jfc

What issues is pvp meant to solve?

[SnuggleSnail]

or die

or get gud

[Zentetsuken]

or die

or get gud

I expected this would be one of the responses, and I was hesitant to add it to my own list because it seems dishonest to assume that one can simply "get gud" quick enough to resolve a conflict. Unfortunately for the very few players who are incompetent at PVP but perhaps willing to learn to do it and enjoy it, they can't just cut to a Rocky training montage and learn it on the spot to resolve a conflict.

That being said, they could absolutely use existing ingame mechanics like sparring and valhalla to learn over time until they are confident and competent enough to "opt-in."

[telum12]

-1

This addresses none of the issues pvp is meant to solve.

Please stop whining and start whitenight larp faction already jfc

What issues is pvp meant to solve?

Devs don’t want to moderate. Grieving alts who just don’t opt in to pvp would need moderation. Devs justify pvp as an ingame policing

[Zentetsuken]

-1

This addresses none of the issues pvp is meant to solve.

Please stop whining and start whitenight larp faction already jfc

What issues is pvp meant to solve?

Devs don’t want to moderate. Grieving alts who just don’t opt in to pvp would need moderation. Devs justify pvp as an ingame policing

I understand that devs do not want to moderate and have a very lazy way of justifying things, but I'm not sure how this related to issues that PVP are meant to solve. Ingame PVP is currently not about conflict resolution, it's largely about guys who like battling each other for bragging rights.

Can you explain why you think that the game would suddenly require moderation if PVP was made to be opt-in? All exploits and griefing mechanics that would be available without PVP are also available right now. Why would anybody expect that the developers would suddenly want to or need to step up their moderation of such things?

[telum12]

I understand that devs do not want to moderate and have a very lazy way of justifying things, but I'm not sure how this related to issues that PVP are meant to solve. Ingame PVP is currently not about conflict resolution, it's largely about guys who like battling each other for bragging rights.

Can you explain why you think that the game would suddenly require moderation if PVP was made to be opt-in? All exploits and griefing mechanics that would be available without PVP are also available right now. Why would anybody expect that the developers would suddenly want to or need to step up their moderation of such things?

How do you deal with siege/bashing? Is that opt in? Can I spam shit on your village to block you in? Can I put 20 fresh nonppvp alts on every gate to block you in?

[wonder-ass]

I mean just make the game singleplayer private servers at this point. My thought process behind pvp has always been u can grief ALOT harder with out pvp than with pvp.

[Zentetsuken]

I understand that devs do not want to moderate and have a very lazy way of justifying things, but I'm not sure how this related to issues that PVP are meant to solve. Ingame PVP is currently not about conflict resolution, it's largely about guys who like battling each other for bragging rights.

Can you explain why you think that the game would suddenly require moderation if PVP was made to be opt-in? All exploits and griefing mechanics that would be available without PVP are also available right now. Why would anybody expect that the developers would suddenly want to or need to step up their moderation of such things?

How do you deal with siege/bashing? Is that opt in? Can I spam shit on your village to block you in? Can I put 20 fresh nonppvp alts on every gate to block you in?

How do we deal with any of that stuff already? What would change?

I mean, I think siege mechanics are being tweaked pretty often but I really don't know why they would need to be changed in response to PVP being opt-in only.

You can literally spam shit in on a village and block people in TODAY. You can go and claim all the swamps around a big village to stop stuff from spawning, you can make big obnoxious claims over water. People are already doing this.

If any of this stuff is done to people in the "don't want to/can't/not interested in PVP" category, they already have ZERO options for conflict resolution. They cannot prevent the grief.

So I think I am failing to understand how this is a relevant argument against PVP being opt-in.