New "Middle" Water Depth

[Zentetsuken]

In light of diversifying ocean biomes, flora and fauna, I propose a new depth of water.

Shallows are ultimately something that can be foraged during a regular walk, you can properly see what is at your feet and as such we can forage and view them from our bipedal position.

Deep water is dangerous, requires swimming and stamina to cross, its depths can be completely unknown, and it is most suitable to traverse via watercraft.


I think it would make more sense for worlds to be generated with a new type of water biome, an intertidal type of zone, a middleground between deep water and shallow water.

Why does this make sense?

Shallow water should be more rare, more as a thing that is paired with sand and skargard and not occurring on its own very often.

Most rivers and practically ALL land should be 100% guaranteed to be surrounded with this intertidal water depth.

This will allow a few major improvements,

1 - the idea of massive ships and whales to not be able to traverse super shallow water because that is retarded
2 - the idea for all caves and cliffs that spawn at the edge of water to be safely traversed and entered without the risk of drowning
3 - the ability for animals to cross water more often (this depth of water would be something that makes up the majority of rivers)

The other reason I suggest this water is to dramatically expand water flora and fauna.

Many ideas have been proposed on how to make the ocean and water areas feel more alive
Ocean Biome Diversification
Ocean Flora Diversification
New Freshwater Flora & Fauna Ideas
Brackish Water Flora & Fauna

This biome could have an entirely different group of forageables than shallow water and be more of a risk-reward situation.

My though is as follows - you must literally "go underwater" to forage this depth of water.

It would act exactly like a level 1 cave, you can do a quick "look" underwater like with the eyeball thing, the same way you would look in to a cave, and upon entering this depth of water you have an air timer that could be relative to your constitution or stamina and deplete until you surface again.

This could add for some interesting strategies with pve and pvp if entering "under water" would disengage you from an agro? Just a thought.

It could also add an unprecedented level of risk/reward to foraging and allow for a long term expansion of complementary mechanics. (think spear fishing, clam digging, etc.)

Imagine it as a difficult-but-entirely-possible to traverse biome (similar to thicket?). So many problems solved, so many windows of opportunity opened.

Thank you for reading this top idea.

[sMartins]

It would act exactly like a level 1 cave, you can do a quick "look" underwater like with the eyeball thing, the same way you would look in to a cave, and upon entering this depth of water you have an air timer that could be relative to your constitution or stamina and deplete until you surface again.

Not bad!

[Zentetsuken]

I will add a few comments about why this is risk/reward and why this is important.

I see tons of people requesting things similar to Salem's darkness. A "biome" that is genuinely considered to a pve endgame, which is something that I think we can all agree is largely missing in haven.

I believe that this middle water biome could be a similar experience.

If it is very hard to traverse and forces you to walk very slowly, it would naturally put you in danger of being spotted by nearby people, with only your ability to go underwater and slowly move away as your safety net.

I think there could also be a lot of interesting animals and features in this water biome that could be dangerous.

It would be an excellent place to re-implement the old "thorn in the foot" type of debuff/wound, with so many potential hazards at your feet you wouldn't be able to see without constantly having to look underwater.

Urchins, poisonous fish and snakes, toothy aggressive small fish, even the idea of getting your ankle caught in seaweed and getting a short "stuck" debuff that could end up a few points of asphyxiation if the timing is bad.

Since we are nomadic hunter/gatherers I feel like the waterways are criminally underutilized for exploration/survival. We are missing out on oodles of potential curiosities and food sources because there is no current mechanic that implements them in to the game beyond them magically appearing floating on the surface as pickable forageables.

[MadNomad]

the ability for animals to cross water more often

would make hunting animals at the beggining of a world more annoying

is this what we want

[Zentetsuken]

the ability for animals to cross water more often

would make hunting animals at the beggining of a world more annoying

is this what we want

generally, cheesing an animal riverside is not a good strategy at all, I have very rarely done this, once it flees it goes inland and you must chase it if you can't get the re-agro in perfect timing

I think a lot of animal cheese is done lakeside, where you make animals flee towards the actual water

Presumably most lakes would still feature deep water, so "water hunting" would absolutely still be a thing

a lot of the "shallow fingers of water" could actually be made up of this middle water as well, and I think mechanically it would also very much slow the animal down, so it might even make it easier?

Also, maybe only large animals should be able to traverse middle water, like deer, bear, moose?

[MadNomad]

a lot of the "shallow fingers of water" could actually be made up of this middle water as well, and I think mechanically it would also very much slow the animal down, so it might even make it easier?

Also, maybe only large animals should be able to traverse middle water, like deer, bear, moose?

sounds nice!

[sMartins]

While we are at that ... I'd like permanent Animals for the Big game!
Idk if possibile at all with the actual tech, but would be cool for sure!

[MadNomad]

I'd like permanent Animals for the Big game!

could result in a lot of bears and other animals that noone clears stacking up and cluttering the forests

with trolls it is a lot different as they do not spawn by themselves, but require player activity to do so, thus being limited and not being found on every step and disturbing gameplay, so those can be permanent unlike other animals

[sMartins]

could result in a lot of bears and other animals that noone clears stacking up and cluttering the forests

I'm pretty sure, if It can be implemented, Loftar would do Better than that.
Not a problem with the numbers, that can be easily accomplished I Guess, something like: no new spawns if there are x creatures in that province.
Tho idk what problems could this thing arise, I Guess a lot .... Still would be cool: tracking the Beast, persistente hunting, don't give Them the time to beverage or restore stamina (stamina for those Beasts) ... And so on, a lot of cool features would be possibile along side with a Better pve experience overall.

[MadNomad]

no new spawns if there are x creatures in that province.

good point, I did not think of this