Game Suggestion: Feudalism

[Halbertz]

My idea, of course, is not at the level of booba milk and cat girls, but maybe someone will like it.

EssenceTM: despite the presence of kingdoms and kings, the feudal system does not exist in the haven. What we have now are tribes that can distribute buffs built in their territory. The potential reward is experience. I don't know about you, but I find the current system extremely boring and lame.
What is feudalism? The structure of society, which relies on the feudal lords and the land. Therefore, I propose the following innovations:

1) Division of kingdoms into levels: county, duchy and kingdom. Restriction on land ownership, depending on the level of the kingdom (as well as a limit on the number of vassals). Numbers could be expanded by in game activity (lame way - build additional crap statue, cool way - winning big battles under kingdom coat of arms, holding tournaments and huge feasts).
2) Vassal system - small counties pay taxes and are subordinate to larger entities.
3) And most importantly - the system of peasants.

The last one is more detailed. The current system of rewards for owning a territory, as I wrote at the beginning, is very dubious. Instead, we can do something newer and more interesting. For example:

- Peasants living on the land of the feudal lord “may” pay tax. The tax will be taken in simple things that factions are often too lazy to produce themselves: that mushrooms, tar, ropes, etc. You can also add to the pool something that all hermits for some reason produce in large quantities, but no one needs it: a different crops, low quality ore, leather, etc.
- All this they hand over to the tax chest. Delivery rewards may vary. You can put something like a mini market with your own currency (a system where the feudal lord himself sets rewards) or make rewards issued by the system (LP, experience, various small stuff).
- The feudal lord can use the received taxes himself or convert them into “supply”. Also, if the feudal lord is someone's vassal, part of the tax is automatically redistributed upward. The supply can be exchanged for useful things - whale meat, silk, steel. The conversion prices must be very high in order to avoid self taxing. Quality can be tied to a top or average quality around the world (plus minus, balancing you know).
- All peasants living on the territory of a feudal lord receive an icon (ideally the coat of arms of a feudal lord, but this is complicated and may contain swastikas) above their heads. This will avoid the indiscriminate extermination of the hermits, because they are your potential taxpayers. This will also add motivation to protect local peasants from offenders from outside (yes pvp content). The same icons (but in a different colour or something) should be added for the peasants of your vassals.
- The concept of “living in the territory” is worth working out, since there is a possible window for abuse. For example, make the icon gain contrast with the time of possession of the claim on the territory of the feud.
- And finally, you can add a system of chivalry. What pros or cons it can give, I have not yet come up with (you could suggest), but the idea for a larp as knights seems funny to me. Giving titles and even land to local peasants for special merit would be cool.

Pros and cons:
+ The flat system gets minimal volume and becomes more interesting.
+ Instead of two or three factions, we can get dozens of small independent counties and several large kingdoms.
+ Solving the problem of senseless violence against spruce hats.
+ Additional social interactions in MMO, oh yes!
+ Potentially solving one of the markets problem: many have complained that no one buys what hermits can sell, such as collectible curiosities (because crafted ones are better). Instead, many markets are accumulating tokens.

- Large system that requires a lot of development time.
- There is a huge window for various abuses (bot farms of carrots for self-taxing, etc.).
- To stretch the royal claim, you need to have vassals. If this is poorly balanced, everything will end up as usual - feudal twinks and feudal bots.
- Perhaps not falling into the setting of the early Middle Ages.
- Cringe, too long didn’t read.

What do you think?

[Fostik]

The idea of the game opposes forcing players to certain circumstances with pre-defined rules. Instead, game lets players to build their own society with own rules.
Things like mechanics defining how and where you live, whether paying taxes and so on looks bad.

But overall I'm not against that idea, would be good if there will be unobtrusive mechanics that will allow such social structures.

[Clemins]

This adds the depth that I think haven means to have with the current system. Great idea man!

I would definitely like factions to feel more like kingdoms with true hierarchies and rewards/permissions associated with the tiers.

Jorb plz
+1

[Halbertz]

The idea of the game opposes forcing players to certain circumstances with pre-defined rules. Instead, game lets players to build their own society with own rules.

I cannot but totally agree with this. However, in my experience, there are not many variations of such effective interactions in the current rules of the game.

Things like mechanics defining how and where you live, whether paying taxes and so on looks bad.

I also agree that forced mechanics are more annoying (for example, steel). Therefore, I implied that the tax system is completely voluntary. It will not affect the ordinary hermit in any way, except for giving him additional opportunities.

But overall I'm not against that idea, would be good if there will be unobtrusive mechanics that will allow such social structures.

I helped a little with the expansion of the kingdom in this world, and I heard enough about how boring and autistic the current system is. I would just like to add meaning to the process. Thanks for feedback!

[DoctorCookie]

I like the idea because on its face it would seem to promote community and encourage factions to actively defend large villages in their realm, at the same time those villages would likely feel obligated to defend in a faction war. Sounds cool.

[wonder-ass]

biggest issues comes from factions just using alts and bots when it comes to ideas like this, i too had a couple ideas like this but all of them fell short on how to prevent alting and botting.

[Sevenless]

Honestly, you're suggesting exactly what the current realm system tries to do. But it isn't achieving that for a reason:

The supply can be exchanged for useful things - whale meat, silk, steel.

This relies on the devs having a keen understanding of the value of goods in the game. There has been many complaints from the community that the devs don't understand minmax behaviour of haven players, and this would very much be minmax central as a mechanic.

. This will avoid the indiscriminate extermination of the hermits, because they are your potential taxpayers.

This is exactly what the current realm system attempts to do. However because it's not super well balanced, the current peasants hold little value and can be freely exterminated by realm owners without much penalty.

All peasants living on the territory of a feudal lord receive an icon (ideally the coat of arms of a feudal lord, but this is complicated and may contain swastikas) above their heads. This will avoid the indiscriminate extermination of the hermits, because they are your potential taxpayers. This will also add motivation to protect local peasants from offenders from outside

Honestly, the realm system increased aggression more than anything (could be coincidence since aggression is very much dependent on the current makeup of our rather small game population). If your aim is to stop senseless slaughter, remember it's extremely hard to help someone being attacked in haven. This means both side's peasants are vulnerable to attack with little real way to defend them. Even defending people in the same village, already in voice comms, it hard.

And finally, you can add a system of chivalry. What pros or cons it can give

There is a huge issue with defining what defines an action as good vs bad in a pvp sandbox like Haven, adding gameable benefits/penalties to it is incredibly dangerous.



Overall the feudal system is very close to what realms offer currently, with the only main difference being the rewards given to the realm leaders which is a very dicey balancing issue that most minmaxers wouldn't trust jorb/loftar to make.

[MadNomad]

Interesting idea, would bring some nice opportunities to abuse sprucecaps with taxes and such!(or slay them if they resist) I like it