Progressive content system on new world

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Progressive content system on new world

Postby SnuggleSnail » Thu Apr 28, 2022 3:48 am

EX content locked until:
day 3 = minehole lv2
day 7 = minehole lv3, snekkjas, steel
day 14 = minehole lv4, knarrs
day 21 = minehole lv5
day 28 = minehole lv6, trolls, bone clay
day 35 = minehole lv7, cave conch
day 42 = minehole lv8, orcas
day 49 = minehole lv9, realms, whales
(semi-random times as an example, whales/orcs/minehole levels being the important ones)

The quality/industry grind for haven is very front-loaded. If you know what you're doing you skip 99% of the content, but it's still so much work that it encourages /a lot/ of people to play together or make alliances just for industry purposes.

Spreading the content out similar to example above would make it more reasonable to play at a competitive level without turbo autism rushing certain things - which would make the early game more enjoyable, make more people competitive in industry, and provide less benefits to being in a big zerg.

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/wow-clas ... ent-phases
https://elysium-project.org/timeline

Classic WOW is kinda like haven in that it was originally intended to be something you play forever, but ended up being basically seasonal for 80% of the player-base. Almost every(literally every?) successful private server has progressive content where more end game stuff is locked for a good while.

I've personally played through vanilla wow ~5 times, and it's a lot more fun to do content in a somewhat intended order as opposed to ignoring MC to do Naxx trash in greens. The equivalent to which in haven is spending 90% of your early game killing whales with a Q13 spear and collecting wax for mineholes while force feeding one guy so he can mine level 9 with a Q100 pickaxe <2 weeks after server up.
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Re: Progressive content system on new world

Postby pawnchito » Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:02 am

Time gating stuff is super touchy and I'm surprised a player of your style would suggest it since it would work against you. +1 but maybe weave in more resources or credos and not just gate it by time though. Like how you need troll stuff to go deeper in the mines. Something like that to scale up to whale hunter could be cool.
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Re: Progressive content system on new world

Postby Nightdawg » Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:57 am

inb4 the 3 stooges find some 10 iq arguments against this and for some reason mention how pvp should be removed
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Re: Progressive content system on new world

Postby MightySheep » Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:58 am

artificially timegating stuff like this is a bit weird

I would rather see things be timegated naturally within the games systems like if you want to increase the timegate of mine layers then just increase the strength requirement

the original main timegate used to be stats but too many things have been introduced to bypass that like salt, tree quests, OP symbel, brokenly OP whale food that is botted and then cheesed without any risk, etc

even stuff like gildings are a big part of the content power creep, it lets people effectively double their stats in the early world across the board

sort of offtopic but imo just removing whales would go so far to returning the end game to something resembling normality, not that jorb ever wants to remove anything even if it sucks
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Re: Progressive content system on new world

Postby SnuggleSnail » Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:26 am

MightySheep wrote:if you want to increase the timegate of mine layers then just increase the strength requirement


Increased requirements wouldn't be a time-gate, it would be an effort-gate/man-hours spent. You probably don't feel it as much being from a bigger village, and I probably focus too much on it, but the early game really has almost no time gates which encourages/requires obscene man hours spent in the first few weeks followed by nothing to do.

If you actually spreadsheet everything out it's technically possible to have a Q400+ anvil well under 7 days after a new world, which is pretty silly considering the max quality in the world rn is prolly like 500-550, and the max theoretical (without insane spiraling luck) is prolly not much higher than that.
Last edited by SnuggleSnail on Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Progressive content system on new world

Postby ZoddAlmighty » Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:03 am

I love this idea. It makes the early world feel less of a race and more of a sightseeing tour.
Where tasks that are not optimal are still being done and are not sacrificed for the greater progress.
I can see how unfun can be to force feed one guy just to progress through mine levels.
On the same note, having mineholes be time gated instead of resource gatted is a really good idea.
For bigger factions , increasing the workload means nothing except making the early game even less fun.
Plus, this way you would have an even playing field where it would not matter how many people you have grinding for a minehole, you would still have to wait.
Well, it would still matter how many people, just not to a degree at which it matters now.
Great idea +1
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Re: Progressive content system on new world

Postby Zentetsuken » Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:19 am

I unironically really love this idea and I think it can be seamlessly integrated in to the game in a way that doesn't make it feel arbitrary and limiting.

People have been asking for more global events like meteors ever since they were implemented, and the idea of the world literally evolving along with us might be very cool.

Imagine having a popup onscreen during day X with some cheesy jorbesque lore written, like;

"A quake is felt during the night, as if the fathoms of the underworld have hollowed and a mystical force is calling for you to explore them. You sense that you can now explore deeper in to the rocky abyss of the hearthlands."

Mineholes can now be created on Cave Level 2.


The world should absolutely be filled with timed events, not just gates. We have seasons and moon phases and we need MORE.
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Re: Progressive content system on new world

Postby terechgracz » Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:23 am

I agre
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Re: Progressive content system on new world

Postby WowGain » Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:31 am

mega +1
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Re: Progressive content system on new world

Postby Saiter » Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:50 am

I really like this idea, imo it would make the game more enjoyable and less of a grindrace. For me the time gate proposed by Snuggle could be even bigger.
People would be hyped for grand opening of new level of caves or appearing of whales as they are now for world reset.

And no, increasing the required materials or stats needed for mining or fighting a creature would only make it less accessable for sprucecaps. For big groups and kingdoms it is just a matter of man-hours spent. I haven't been a member of big group, but even for me and few of my friends after few weeks into new world most activities were more "are we in mood to do this" than "we don't have resources/stats to do this".

"A quake is felt during the night, as if the fathoms of the underworld have hollowed and a mystical force is calling for you to explore them. You sense that you can now explore deeper in to the rocky abyss of the hearthlands."

Mineholes can now be created on Cave Level 2.

This is perfect and made me support the idea.
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