Economy and Trading update.

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Economy and Trading update.

Postby SlicingTheMoon » Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:09 pm

I want to be able to buy and sell everything with barterstands, so that we can make villages that are more designed for economy and trading.
It makes no sense that we can't buy anything we want through barter stands except for maybe a programing standpoint.
For example, if we could buy a tool at a certain quality we would have people come to our market to sell it to us, instead of us searching for a market and the item.
And if someone sees that we are buying a tool for this amount and they know where to buy one they could travel between the villages for profits.
We would literally create a need for merchants who are willing to travel between places and transport goods.

Completely limit where trees and crop can grow by continent.
Sounds horrible I know but hear me out.

I think it would make sense that not all crop or trees could grow on all continents because of soil properties, climate etc.

Making so that some materials are limited to different continents would mean people would be more motivated to trade large quantities of crops via ships.
For example Barley, Millet and Wheat would all grow on different continents and entire barrels of those seeds would be sold.
Hemp and flax would be the same, you either have hemp or flax on the continent.
Leek, Red or Yellow onion. Beetroot or Turnip, Peas or Cucumbers, grapes or tea, pepper might need to be able to grow on all continents or only on the worst continent.
This would also mean mass farming would have more meaning than just feeding animals.

Jorb and Loftar would need to juggle "what can grow where" to make it as fair as possible.
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Re: Economy and Trading update.

Postby donatas081294 » Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:44 am

Hold up I thought you could sell anything on Barter Stand.
Like runescape trading + bidding. For example I put up to sell roasted fish food and I expect 2 digit quality lure for fishing.
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Re: Economy and Trading update.

Postby donatas081294 » Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:45 am

-1 for second part.
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Re: Economy and Trading update.

Postby Karede » Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:04 am

Having to set up outposts to farm certain materials(which is what would actually happen) would be trivial without overhauling lots of other things
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Re: Economy and Trading update.

Postby Fostik » Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:10 am

In simply words, crops variety will not worth time investments for trading, this will only be trading roleplay, that thing will not live long.
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Re: Economy and Trading update.

Postby Mashadar » Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:37 am

You can already trade nearly anything with barter stands, so you can buy a tool at a certain quality.

Retroactively limiting crops to certain parts of the worlds would only lead to frustration.
In general the idea isn't bad, but it should be optional content that is nice to have, but not a must-have.
Something like stoats which only appear only in very specific biomes.
There could be more of that, which could also include some new exotic crops.
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Re: Economy and Trading update.

Postby vatas » Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:07 am

I remember one world where it merely seemed that in exchange for not having any Mulberry trees, we had abundance of Cherry Trees instead.* And while Cherries are nice for early fruitroasts that give STR, that is far from equivalent from being locked away from early silk industry.

Imagine building a village and discovering you can't grow Flax there, that's a quit moment.

*Probably was just how biomes happened to be placed rather than specific world generation thing, but end result was similar.
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Re: Economy and Trading update.

Postby Sevenless » Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:50 pm

vatas wrote:I remember one world where it merely seemed that in exchange for not having any Mulberry trees, we had abundance of Cherry Trees instead.* And while Cherries are nice for early fruitroasts that give STR, that is far from equivalent from being locked away from early silk industry.

Imagine building a village and discovering you can't grow Flax there, that's a quit moment.

*Probably was just how biomes happened to be placed rather than specific world generation thing, but end result was similar.


How do you take advice from a video that basically says "Yeah Haven and Hearth was a mistake that should never have existed, just delete it"

The issue with this concept of regional resources is mostly that haven's systems matured without it. "What if I can't get silk?" seems preposterous to us, but other regions would also have to lack something utterly vital so that trade is possible instead of everyone avoiding certain environments. These items would need to be important, but something you don't need on a constant basis to keep transporting/trading burdens on the players reasonable. There just aren't enough things in haven that fit into said criteria, nearly everything is either "needed very rarely" (troll leather for belts for the average player as an example?) or "need continuous daily supply" (if a foodstuff is good, you need it all the time and in large quantities).

I don't think it's something we can retroactively add in.
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Re: Economy and Trading update.

Postby SnuggleSnail » Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:15 pm

Have you ever tried doing bulk trades of like 10+ carts? That shit is fucking cancer, and there's no way anybody would choose to do that regularly instead of maintain a pclaim next to a thingwall somewhere. Markets don't even exist to facilitate that for 50% of the world. Not to mention 80% of the player-base doesn't have the stats to do it even if they wanted for most of the world.

Your idea seems awful either way, but you're talking about step 90 when step 1 hasn't even been figured out yet.
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Re: Economy and Trading update.

Postby SlicingTheMoon » Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:19 pm

donatas081294 wrote:Hold up I thought you could sell anything on Barter Stand.
Like runescape trading + bidding. For example I put up to sell roasted fish food and I expect 2 digit quality lure for fishing.


You can sell anything you put in a container connected to a barterstand, but you cant make a barterstand buy everything.
The thing I want the most is being able to buy specific foods and curiosities with barterstands, it's bit of a necessity to make my economy village work in the future.
Bidding and auction would be amazing, but I guess for now that needs to be player managed.

Fostik wrote:In simply words, crops variety will not worth time investments for trading, this will only be trading roleplay, that thing will not live long.


Once I have my village and can show bulk crop trading, I will personally invite you to try it, that it would be doable and profitable for those who want to.
Flax and hemp can be processed in to cloth to increase the value.
Olives could be made in to bread and oil before sold.
Beetroot and poppy could be processed in to paint.
Grapes could be sold as wine instead, etc etc

Mashadar wrote:You can already trade nearly anything with barter stands, so you can buy a tool at a certain quality.

Retroactively limiting crops to certain parts of the worlds would only lead to frustration.
In general the idea isn't bad, but it should be optional content that is nice to have, but not a must-have.
Something like stoats which only appear only in very specific biomes.
There could be more of that, which could also include some new exotic crops.


You can't buy some specific food with barter stands.
You can buy general food, like baked goods, I still need to look through it, curiosities is the same, you can buy some curiosities but not all.

It is only frustrating because we have always played this game with the silver spoon in our mouth.
It would be hard at first, but once we get used to it I am sure some people would like it, not all but that is how game development is.
I always love more crops adding to the game.

Sevenless wrote:
vatas wrote:I remember one world where it merely seemed that in exchange for not having any Mulberry trees, we had abundance of Cherry Trees instead.* And while Cherries are nice for early fruitroasts that give STR, that is far from equivalent from being locked away from early silk industry.

Imagine building a village and discovering you can't grow Flax there, that's a quit moment.

*Probably was just how biomes happened to be placed rather than specific world generation thing, but end result was similar.


How do you take advice from a video that basically says "Yeah Haven and Hearth was a mistake that should never have existed, just delete it"

The issue with this concept of regional resources is mostly that haven's systems matured without it. "What if I can't get silk?" seems preposterous to us, but other regions would also have to lack something utterly vital so that trade is possible instead of everyone avoiding certain environments. These items would need to be important, but something you don't need on a constant basis to keep transporting/trading burdens on the players reasonable. There just aren't enough things in haven that fit into said criteria, nearly everything is either "needed very rarely" (troll leather for belts for the average player as an example?) or "need continuous daily supply" (if a foodstuff is good, you need it all the time and in large quantities).

I don't think it's something we can retroactively add in.

Do you think it is going well in Haven and Hearth right now?
Do you think it can get any worse than 150 players online?
We can make it a lot better but not much worse by trying new things, we are at the bottom of the game, people simply dont come back unless it is a world reset.
What if Jorb also made so that we can chose what continent to spawn on and it displays what resources are available on them?
That way people would not need to discover that they are fucked only after they put several RL days in to the game.
They know what they want to do and chose the continent based on that, they would also know what continent have the resources they want to trade.

SnuggleSnail wrote:Have you ever tried doing bulk trades of like 10+ carts? That shit is fucking cancer, and there's no way anybody would choose to do that regularly instead of maintain a pclaim next to a thingwall somewhere. Markets don't even exist to facilitate that for 50% of the world. Not to mention 80% of the player-base doesn't have the stats to do it even if they wanted for most of the world.

Your idea seems awful either way, but you're talking about step 90 when step 1 hasn't even been figured out yet.


When I have the Village I'm planning to build, I could bulk trade 10 entire ships without much effort, I guess it would take about 3 minutes each.
I would gladly pay someone to come with a ship full of the materials that we need, my village would focus on our own production instead of managing a p-claims across the world.
We would have to adjust to the changes of an update like this, it would most likely change how we play haven and hearth, by a lot and I think that would be good.

For example I want to replace Markets with properly managed cities instead, something I have figured out how to build, but it is a rather large projects and I need more people for it.
I am already past step 90 you spoke of, at least in planning, I want an economy to boost how the city will work, cutting down on resources would give a trade and economy city like mine a huge advantage.
But it is not entirely for my own selfish desire I want an update like this, I think in the long run it would give the game a much needed change that would be good and refreshing for Haven and Hearth.
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