Cultures/Tribes

[Sephiron]

Ok, here me out. Split the world into two or 3 cultures - Western, southern, and eastern. Players will choose a culture when they're creating their character, and that will determine what side of the map they'll spawn into (Unless using wild. beacon) and what 'Tribe' they belong to. This tribe system is separate from realms, and a tribe cannot be created or destroyed in any way. It is simply just a method of categorizing players, and what tribe a player belongs to will be displayed in the kin menu. People from the western tribe cannot attack or commit crimes against claims or people in the western tribe, and vice-versa for eastern and southern tribe, unless a crazy expensive/dangerous skill is used (Fratricide? after murder?). Players can, however, travel to the opposite tribe and do whatever they wish. Maybe make a skill or hearth magic that allows a lawspeaker of any village convert someone to their tribe, with their acceptance. I wonder what would happen? Would all the new players just join the same tribe as the big players, eventually making it so everyone is effectively safe? Would each tribe have an equal amount of strong players that work to intimidate potential raiders? Perhaps our ancestors would reward some incredible treasures to the leaders of a realm for every opposing tribesman that their warriors kill? Just a highdea. What do you guys think?

[Blueberry]

an interesting idea...i'd like to give it a shot

[SacreDoom]

This carries both the risk of the different tribes becoming totally lobsided in power and the problem that it becomes that much harder to retaliate against griefers. Bad idea over-all, IMO.

[gravesmerch]

each continent has a unique Tribe Wonder that is built in mysterious ways, server side, different to each tribe, like XP mechanics on steroids

one tribe is materialistic, other is spiritual, etc... wonders are built accordingly

once the Tribe Wonder is complete it unlocks Imperialist mechanics, along with Knars, Ship Docks, ocean exploration, siege...

make pvp opt-in and you have 100% Haven 3 confirmed

[Sevenless]

I've seen this system tried in other games, and it's especially problematic in haven (it didn't work in those other games either for the record)

A) You are allowed unlimited accounts, unlimited characters. This means making spies is trivial.

B) You aren't able to crime against your tribe, spies can now grief you without any way to knock down a freshly spawned character.

C) If we sidestep B with a special skill, what's stopping faction players from just buying that skill and playing like normal?

What happens in systems like this tends to be 1 side wins. Everyone joins that side to avoid being attacked by it, and the other tribes become ghosts. Then we're back to haven as it is right now, but with a more expensive rage skill.

~~~

If you wanted to make a tribe system in haven, I think you'd be better off effectively reforming the realm system. Rework buffs to be village based like this suggestion: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=73493 Allow founding a tribe effectively instantly (Vidol difficulty) and give anyone who is oathed into the tribe a marker above their head like realms/villages do.

I think this will only work if it's an organic system.

Edit: Thinking about it, we have the same problem. Everyone will just join the "winning" tribe and ignore everything else.

[Sephiron]

I've seen this system tried in other games, and it's especially problematic in haven (it didn't work in those other games either for the record)

A) You are allowed unlimited accounts, unlimited characters. This means making spies is trivial.

B) You aren't able to crime against your tribe, spies can now grief you without any way to knock down a freshly spawned character.

C) If we sidestep B with a special skill, what's stopping faction players from just buying that skill and playing like normal?

What happens in systems like this tends to be 1 side wins. Everyone joins that side to avoid being attacked by it, and the other tribes become ghosts. Then we're back to haven as it is right now, but with a more expensive rage skill.

~~~

If you wanted to make a tribe system in haven, I think you'd be better off effectively reforming the realm system. Rework buffs to be village based like this suggestion: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=73493 Allow founding a tribe effectively instantly (Vidol difficulty) and give anyone who is oathed into the tribe a marker above their head like realms/villages do.

I think this will only work if it's an organic system.

Edit: Thinking about it, we have the same problem. Everyone will just join the "winning" tribe and ignore everything else.

Yeah, that village to realm buff idea is a really good one for sure, it would definitely make having villages inside your realm a good thing, and would allow players to choose whatever buffs they'd like, rather than whatever random BS the megaplayers/realm owners need. I see players eventually all joining the winning faction as a non-issue, it would take a while for a 'winner' to be apparent, andthe player count almost halves every month or two as it is, and having end game PVP non-existent is fair because all of the actual PVPers quit the game eventually or are part of a handful of small factions, and the last ones actually looking to fight are just the sprucecap shitters. I think the biggest issue mentioned was the griefers/"spies", I have yet to really think of a good way to solve that... But for everyone saying 'People will just mass alts to create a body-blocking wall of fresh spawns'... I honestly haven't heard of a single instance of this happening. I'm sure it does happen, but if it was actually worth doing you would see it talked about on the forums more often as it's possible to do even now. The average person wouldn't even bother trying to fight it, because the average person doesn't fight. Someone built a base too close to yours? "uh... hope they're friendly because I'm not going to risk my character to siege them" seems to be the meta, unless you're overwhelmingly more powerful/in a large group. "This player knocked me out and I want revenge... but all I can do is send a nidbane and hope it's strong enough to kill him". This whole 'We need PVP to keep people from being annoying', and that 'the air is free' game that Jorb talks about isn't real like it used to be in legacy. From my experience at least.

Also not an argument, but if you have a good thread showing someone massing alts to form a wall I wanna see it. It sounds hilarious. And yeah, I can also see it working with realms as well. There is no real reason to make an entirely different system ON TOP of all the systems we already have. It also makes it harder for griefers as well, because in order to be a part of that realm you would have to have a pclaim/vclaim there right?

[Sevenless]

Also not an argument, but if you have a good thread showing someone massing alts to form a wall I wanna see it. It sounds hilarious. And yeah, I can also see it working with realms as well. There is no real reason to make an entirely different system ON TOP of all the systems we already have. It also makes it harder for griefers as well, because in order to be a part of that realm you would have to have a pclaim/vclaim there right?

It happened in legacy back when I don't think you could move dead bodies immediately, sorry don't have pictures of that but some people might still. A faction literally drowned the gates of a siege in bodies 10 deep. Alt walls around claim stakes early world happen (I've used it myself actually) to make sure no one hits a drying claim pole while they're busy elsewhere/asleep. Since no one has rage, those pole guards are actually invincible.

It really comes down to the "if we turn pvp off, this becomes a serious problem". PvP makes dealing with fresh alts trivial.

[Sephiron]

Also not an argument, but if you have a good thread showing someone massing alts to form a wall I wanna see it. It sounds hilarious. And yeah, I can also see it working with realms as well. There is no real reason to make an entirely different system ON TOP of all the systems we already have. It also makes it harder for griefers as well, because in order to be a part of that realm you would have to have a pclaim/vclaim there right?

It happened in legacy back when I don't think you could move dead bodies immediately, sorry don't have pictures of that but some people might still. A faction literally drowned the gates of a siege in bodies 10 deep. Alt walls around claim stakes early world happen (I've used it myself actually) to make sure no one hits a drying claim pole while they're busy elsewhere/asleep. Since no one has rage, those pole guards are actually invincible.

It really comes down to the "if we turn pvp off, this becomes a serious problem". PvP makes dealing with fresh alts trivial.

Okay, well, if you made it tied to realms, and make it so you're only part of a realm if you own a pclaim there, then I think it negates the problem entirely. Buying yeomanry and constructing a pclaim, waiting for it to dry etc for every alt sounds like a ton of work/not worth doing.

[Necrisha]

Interesting Idea, but lets simplify it into stuff that's harder to grief with: instead of large tribes, link tribes to the current province system. (no outside identifying marker) When hunting/gathering/farming inside your province gain a small quality buff. PVP outside your province gives a 1% stat debuff. Your identified province is where you keep your heathfire, and tribe-less nomads (no hearthfire) only get the debuff.

Maintain provinces within the realm as a separate set of buffs and debuffs. Running themed names on provinces based on 3-4 culture groups and grouping the provinces named as such together, also I like the idea of the sudo choice on where you land according to culture, that could work.