MAKE SIEGE REAL AGAIN

[Justforthis]

Aight real talk. I'm autistic, when I say "you are asking for easy grief" I mean literally that and only that. I dont mean "you just wanna grief ", I do mean "the thing you are asking for is this, yet the word you are using is this, there's a discrepancy". As in, "ask for something else, you're pursuing the wrong thing based on waht you say you want".

Onwards I call cap on you having similar stats to those dudes, maybe comparable within some range but back it up with more than just words.

I don't have a defeatist attitude, I literally suggested making siege take only a day/half day/whatever is good, with requiring enough people.

What's stopping you from thinking outside the box? Add more incentives for realms to war instead. I'd LOVE being able to (willingly) consript a hearhtling to a war for the kingdom I settle in. Maybe there could be some unique resource once a month which is designed to encourage realms to fight over?

Argue why designing siege in such a way that easy griefing would be possible is the only way to make pvp fun.

I understand. So what I mean with siege is that it forces people to either pay with their base or to fight back. Straight up. Because your village is the thing you value the most you'd obviously want to fight back. That's why the siege is good for PvP enjoyers. Stuff with realms or a unique resource may seem like a fun idea on paper but we are just people. Being forced by the game to fight is lame, and the LARP added to it is even more lame. The fights we have are in 99% forced by other players and it's fun that way. And that's why siege is so valuable for me, because it's simply the only tool I have to do that, other than idk, ganking people under villages or camping their gates so they chase us away. If people are basically immune (unless I waste 5 days of my life) in their palisade, then that's one source of PvP less.

You may think that I'm lying about the stats/gear but I upgraded my steel pants by like 30q from them. The stats were similar because if you look at the video I posted they opened us with similar openings that we opened on them. We dealt similar damage. The difference was that they made lots of stupid mistakes. I.e. that guy that went into the deep water while having 3 guys on your ass, you NEVER do that. He almost drowned. That's how we picked them off. Just mistakes because of their lack of skill. You have the whole ass video to back it up as I mentioned. I'd find more evidence but honestly I kinda don't wanna bother because it's buried under MONTHS of messages in our village chat. People think we have insane stats because of bots or w/e but that happened last world (which was old and stale at this point I may add). This world Snail had like 300 stats for the whole world.

Wasnt the guy who died after swimming like the last guy alive after you already capped a few of them? Whatever, I'm not calling complete bullshit on the stats claim, just semi-bullshit. It's plaussible.

Now you made a good point, and like I said I'm not against making sieging more accesible. Despite what you think about me I think drama and player politics can be interesting as fuck. But I also think it has to be somewhat mitigated for solos. Not taken out of the picture, but not completely merciless.

How about if sieging time is depentant on how many hearthfires are within a claim?(or personal claims within a village) Or the size of the claim? So that sieging a big ass village can be done in a day, but sieging a hermit would take more time?

[Clemins]

So am I mistaken arent skulls only good if you kill high level dudes? That's pretty balanced, it gives very little for spruce caps afaik.
The scents are only for tracking people who already commited crimes. I was describing tracking people who didn't do anything so you can initiate pvp for lulz and tension.

But overall yeah you might be right that it's not so easy making playerkilling more rewarding than it already is. That's still not, imo, a reason to enable griefing.

I am not against making sieging accesible, I am heavily against making griefing easy.

You'd be shocked how many time's we've KO'd killed someone that didn't look like their skull would give 3000LP/H, yeah of course killing a high level player for their skull would be ideal, problem is in order to actually kill a pvper/player that knows what they're doing is impossible in this current iteration of the game. Also, even if the player skull isn't worth the LP/H, it's still worth it for the players current study 9/10 times.

The scents are only for tracking people who already commited crimes. I was describing tracking people who didn't do anything so you can initiate pvp for lulz and tension.

I see what you mean, but I don't think people who REALLY don't want to pvp, hidden in a corner of the world grinding their stats effectively and stress free want me or anyone else inclined to track them to find them. I don't mind the challange of finding people on my own, but people confident enough to leave scents and being tracked is fine as it is.

I am not against making sieging accesible, I am heavily against making griefing easy.

Same tbh, the issue is right now it's not easy OR accessible. Seriously, do you want to watch a ram for 5 days? The 24 hour timer from before was (compared to what it is now) perfect, it was enough time to allow a defender to do some sneaky stuff and still encouraged picking the right target to waste almost an entire day either fighting or standing around doing nothing.

[DonVelD]

Wasnt the guy who died after swimming like the last guy alive after you already capped a few of them? Whatever, I'm not calling complete bullshit on the stats claim, just semi-bullshit. It's plaussible.

No, Clemins who was recording the video just split from the group to get this guy. We had the rest of the group (me included) fighting with the other 10+ people that were still there.

Now you made a good point, and like I said I'm not against making sieging more accesible. Despite what you think about me I think drama and player politics can be interesting as fuck. But I also think it has to be somewhat mitigated for solos. Not taken out of the picture, but not completely merciless.

How about if sieging time is depentant on how many hearthfires are within a claim?(or personal claims within a village) Or the size of the claim? So that sieging a big ass village can be done in a day, but sieging a hermit would take more time?

You also have to take many things into consideration. What if a big group wants to grief other group with an alt? They'd just make a bunch of single character claims surrounding their village, stopping them from expanding. I'd say its better to make it slightly unfair because getting fucked over this way would be way more unfair to people. Hell, if you piss off a hermit whilst being a hermit he might do that to you if he's determined enough. Suggestions to systems like these, while it might seem obviously a good idea on paper, need to have a lot of thought put into them in order to be fair to everyone.
All I'm saying is its worth paying the price of siege being slightly on the "too easy" side rather than the other. It wouldn't change any systems, it'd just be a little bit unfair. Right now it's unfun.

You could say I'm selfish, but on the other hand I'm just trying to have fun, drama and action. This game being a MMO Stardew Valley makes it lose all its potential.

[DonVelD]

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=44710
this was already talked about years ago by devs, if PvP vs no PvP balance is bad it means you'll just get griefed the other ways

[Justforthis]

Wasnt the guy who died after swimming like the last guy alive after you already capped a few of them? Whatever, I'm not calling complete bullshit on the stats claim, just semi-bullshit. It's plaussible.

No, Clemins who was recording the video just split from the group to get this guy. We had the rest of the group (me included) fighting with the other 10+ people that were still there.

Now you made a good point, and like I said I'm not against making sieging more accesible. Despite what you think about me I think drama and player politics can be interesting as fuck. But I also think it has to be somewhat mitigated for solos. Not taken out of the picture, but not completely merciless.

How about if sieging time is depentant on how many hearthfires are within a claim?(or personal claims within a village) Or the size of the claim? So that sieging a big ass village can be done in a day, but sieging a hermit would take more time?

You also have to take many things into consideration. What if a big group wants to grief other group with an alt? They'd just make a bunch of single character claims surrounding their village, stopping them from expanding. I'd say its better to make it slightly unfair because getting fucked over this way would be way more unfair to people. Hell, if you piss off a hermit whilst being a hermit he might do that to you if he's determined enough. Suggestions to systems like these, while it might seem obviously a good idea on paper, need to have a lot of thought put into them in order to be fair to everyone.
All I'm saying is its worth paying the price of siege being slightly on the "too easy" side rather than the other. It wouldn't change any systems, it'd just be a little bit unfair. Right now it's unfun.

You could say I'm selfish, but on the other hand I'm just trying to have fun, drama and action. This game being a MMO Stardew Valley makes it lose all its potential.

Would that really work what with the prep time for claims and all? The village getting griefed would have to have no one stepping outside the walls for 8 hours straight if the griefing plan is perfectly timed. The girefers would need to know when they have a window like that.

Edit: Nvm you're right, my suggestion was naive.

[DonVelD]

Well, we are only people, sometimes I found something really close to our big ass village just to realise it's been there for months. Sometimes you miss things like these. I'd say it's entirely possible to happen. You could argue it wouldn't happen to a hermit because the village is small, but you never know. Sometimes because you are a hermit you could just not log in for a day. There's a big room for human error.

[Clemins]

Also, if you wanna raise hell about changing something that allows for easy griefing, the whole "Claim bond being stolen" scenario is something that's super abusable.
Most people don't really think about this until it happens to them and it's too late:

1. I KO someone and take their claim bond
2. <player> doesn't notice it's gone and doesn't re-claim it from their claim post
3. About 3 days pass while I have that claim bond in MY study
4. I now own your claim as if I were the original owner at it's current power level and you're shit outa luck

[vatas]

Also, if you wanna raise hell about changing something that allows for easy griefing, the whole "Claim bond being stolen" scenario is something that's super abusable.
Most people don't really think about this until it happens to them and it's too late:

1. I KO someone and take their claim bond
2. <player> doesn't notice it's gone and doesn't re-claim it from their claim post
3. About 3 days pass while I have that claim bond in MY study
4. I now own your claim as if I were the original owner at it's current power level and you're shit outa luck

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=71772&start=40#p903504

I've previously raised that point and Loftar gave a series of out-of-touch responses trying to justify why Bonds need to be a thing.

[Clemins]

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=71772&start=40#p903504

I've previously raised that point and Loftar gave a series of out-of-touch responses trying to justify why Bonds need to be a thing.

Ah yes, thier classic "I don't know how I'd change this, but I know how I wouldn't" angle. Literally so many ways this could be addressed and I HIGHLY doubt anyone would care about how "elegant" it is so long as it fixes the core issue.
Not to totally derail the subject of siege, but fixing this would literally benefit everyone.

[SnuggleSnail]

I traveled half the map to an volcano and jumped in at exactly 18:01.
[...]
So yeah, fuck ya preconseptions about me.

The people that bash their own cupboards instead of making catapults have not fought back. A single person's response to these situations is not really important to my point, though.



In World 12 a my group of ~5 of us killed a friend of a friend. When reporting the incident he claimed there were 20+ people, and he earnestly believed that. There's 1,000 examples of this. Most fighters still do this after years of fighting. A lot of fighters still shake because of the visceral, physical reaction they get.

Haven didn't just teach me, but let me experience over and over again how:

• often groups will be in denial about losing, or twist pyrrhic outcomes into wins emotionally
• the people who are supposed to be experts WILL make DEVASTATING and OBVIOUS mistakes
• most people are willing to believe almost anything when they're spooked
• easy it is to build genuine camaraderie when everybody is at risk together
• easy it is to convince somebody to betray their friends if it won't be obvious
• hard it is to stop people who should know better from bragging/revealing sensitive information
• principle agent dilemmas play out in real life
• easily people will join people they hate when it is advantageous to do so

I could go on forever. Haven has made me change the way I view the world and powerful people drastically. That's some high art, amazing bullshit that should be celebrated.

Every single avenue for risk has been eroded to the point the game does not encourage any of these experiences anymore. Haven was once a unique way to experience parts of humanity that don't come up often in real life.

Now that is gone, and it's not even because of a cynical desire for mass appeal/money. It's just incompetence. It's depressing.