MAKE SIEGE REAL AGAIN

[Justforthis]

the difference between me and you is that if im getting camped and griefed and killed i'll do something about it and i WILL enjoy it all, thats why im playing the game

also also siege makes PvP encounters mandatory so like yeah PvP happens outside of sieges but so what if sieges really help in getting PvP instead of shitters just hiding inside of palisades
here's an example of me and my frens forcing a whole village of players to come out and fight us which ultimately was the goal (note: it was with a wrecking ball because siege was so bad this world)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI8-sD7wcDc
before you say "but you won anyway with your titan chars with 999999 stats and 9999 quality items" im gonna say that it wasn't the case, they stopped the siege by themselves because unlike 95% of the playerbase they fought back

give me more PvP and siege back thanks

You make a lot of assumptions. 'course I'd fight back too, I'd fuken lose but I'd give it a shot but you're completely missing the point. The danger element of haven is nice and exciting, but haven isn't a pvp-focused game.
There's little to no skill to the combat, as long as hou have a basic understanding of how combat works the stats are what play the largest part hands down.
What you are asking for is the ability to curbstomp people with no possible means of hurting you back. That is what you are asking for, you're saying it's cuz you want to pvp more but you are specifically asking for easy-grief.

I love getting my shit kicked and getting back up as much as the next guy, when there's at least a chance to succeed no matter how small. "Do something about it" implies that there is something you can do bro. You know this yet you wont admit it.

[DonVelD]

You make a lot of assumptions. 'course I'd fight back too, I'd fuken lose but I'd give it a shot but you're completely missing the point. The danger element of haven is nice and exciting, but haven isn't a pvp-focused game.
There's little to no skill to the combat, as long as hou have a basic understanding of how combat works the stats are what play the largest part hands down.
What you are asking for is the ability to curbstomp people with no possible means of hurting you back. That is what you are asking for, you're saying it's cuz you want to pvp more but you are specifically asking for easy-grief.

I love getting my shit kicked and getting back up as much as the next guy, when there's at least a chance to succeed no matter how small. "Do something about it" implies that there is something you can do bro. You know this yet you wont admit it.

I make lots of assumptions cause you do, like here you're assuming I want to annihilate every player lol. Take a look at yourself in the mirror brother, no need to get emotional.

There's lots of skill in the PvP and there's a learning curve. We had similar stats to those guys in the vid yet we kicked their ass with 1/3 of numbers cause we have a few skilled players. The stats genuinely don't matter as much as you'd think. Gear kinda does, but you can make do with shitty gear, hell, those people we fought had better shit than we did.

You just have a defeatist attitude. Like I said there's a difference between you and I. I was once a hermit too, got shit on but I decided to get good at the game and find friends. I'm still shit but I try not to be.

Also:

before you say "but you won anyway with your titan chars with 999999 stats and 9999 quality items"

You literally just said it right away. I told ya, there's too many people that are like this.

[Justforthis]

I make lots of assumptions cause you do, like here you're assuming I want to annihilate every player lol. Take a look at yourself in the mirror brother, no need to get emotional.

There's lots of skill in the PvP and there's a learning curve. We had similar stats to those guys in the vid yet we kicked their ass with 1/3 of numbers cause we have a few skilled players. The stats genuinely don't matter as much as you'd think. Gear kinda does, but you can make do with shitty gear, hell, those people we fought had better shit than we did.

You just have a defeatist attitude. Like I said there's a difference between you and I. I was once a hermit too, got shit on but I decided to get good at the game and find friends. I'm still shit but I try not to be.

Aight real talk. I'm autistic, when I say "you are asking for easy grief" I mean literally that and only that. I dont mean "you just wanna grief ", I do mean "the thing you are asking for is this, yet the words you are using is this, there's a discrepancy". As in, "ask for something else, you're pursuing the wrong thing based on what you say you want".

Onwards I call cap on you having similar stats to those dudes, maybe comparable within some range but back it up with more than just words.

I don't have a defeatist attitude, I literally suggested making siege take only a day/half day/whatever is good, with requiring enough people.

What's stopping you from thinking outside the box? Add more incentives for realms to war instead. I'd LOVE being able to (willingly) conscript a hearhtling to a war for the kingdom I settle in. Maybe there could be some unique resource once a month which is designed to encourage realms to fight over?

Argue why designing siege in such a way that easy griefing would be possible is the only way to make pvp fun.

[Justforthis]

Also:

before you say "but you won anyway with your titan chars with 999999 stats and 9999 quality items"

You literally just said it right away. I told ya, there's too many people that are like this.

"I have a gun and challenge you to fight me with your bare hands, bet you're gonna say it's unfair"
It is unfair
"Haha, see I knew it!"

[SnuggleSnail]

As pretentious as it sounds when Haven had stakes it taught me a lot about people, myself, and the human experience. It's what I loved about the game, in spite of the moment to moment gameplay not being very fun.

I know you wouldn't fight back in most situations. Most people don't. I don't think you're lying, I think you're wrong. Believing you have a chance for success, and morale in general are so much more important than everybody gives it credit for. conversely, I am 100% confident I could make you drown yourself on a 10 stat character with hussar wings.

Again, pretentious, but it's a travesty that the game does not generate these experiences anymore for the sake of accessibility. Especially when the game is still wildly inaccessible for reasons that do not contribute anything positive.

[Clemins]

Make pvp outside the walls a little more rewarding and easier to strive thowards.
Downing or killing a player could reward instant lp or something on top of their loot.
Slave keys could work on gates both ways but just not being able to be copied coupled with being killed doesn't allow you to log in for 10, 30, 60 minutes giving a window of time to raid a base before locks can be changed. Then when inherriting could force disallowed players out of the claim and not even allow criminal acts for a grace period.
There could be a method for tracking/locating players who are online and who have combat stats within a certain range of your stats, like rustroot but for evil.

It's doesn't need to be any more rewarding than it already is, trust me.
There is a common misconception that hunting new/weak/gullible players provides no gains and is purely for the "sport". Don't get me wrong, it's VERY fun, but there is always a reason. Let me explain:

Downing or killing a player could reward instant lp or something on top of their loot.

Skulls. Skulls are exactly this and they can make for awesome studies.

Slave keys could work on gates both ways but just not being able to be copied coupled with being killed doesn't allow you to log in for 10, 30, 60 minutes giving a window of time to raid a base before locks can be changed. Then when inherriting could force disallowed players out of the claim and not even allow criminal acts for a grace period.

If you make the airlock with a visitor gate, you never have to bring your keys outside you claim to begin with.

There could be a method for tracking/locating players who are online and who have combat stats within a certain range of your stats, like rustroot but for evil.

This exists too my guy, it's the scent system. If you want people with "equal or better" stats to be the ones to track you, all you have to do is raise stealth.

I wont go on a total "Why pvp/griefing/hermit hunting is a good thing" tangent, maybe ill make a future thread(?), but last thing I want to mention since I see this a lot is:
Why do people KO hermits when all their things are 10q or bad q compared to what they have?
The short, simple, and honest answer is curios. Finding and KO'ing people for curios is a legit strategy to the LP grind, it takes all the work out of making and finding curios and 1 KO/Kill can give enough curios for 1-2 days.

[DonVelD]

Aight real talk. I'm autistic, when I say "you are asking for easy grief" I mean literally that and only that. I dont mean "you just wanna grief ", I do mean "the thing you are asking for is this, yet the word you are using is this, there's a discrepancy". As in, "ask for something else, you're pursuing the wrong thing based on waht you say you want".

Onwards I call cap on you having similar stats to those dudes, maybe comparable within some range but back it up with more than just words.

I don't have a defeatist attitude, I literally suggested making siege take only a day/half day/whatever is good, with requiring enough people.

What's stopping you from thinking outside the box? Add more incentives for realms to war instead. I'd LOVE being able to (willingly) consript a hearhtling to a war for the kingdom I settle in. Maybe there could be some unique resource once a month which is designed to encourage realms to fight over?

Argue why designing siege in such a way that easy griefing would be possible is the only way to make pvp fun.

I understand. So what I mean with siege is that it forces people to either pay with their base or to fight back. Straight up. Because your village is the thing you value the most you'd obviously want to fight back. That's why the siege is good for PvP enjoyers. Stuff with realms or a unique resource may seem like a fun idea on paper but we are just people. Being forced by the game to fight is lame, and the LARP added to it is even more lame. The fights we have are in 99% forced by other players and it's fun that way. And that's why siege is so valuable for me, because it's simply the only tool I have to do that, other than idk, ganking people under villages or camping their gates so they chase us away. If people are basically immune (unless I waste 5 days of my life) in their palisade, then that's one source of PvP less.

You may think that I'm lying about the stats/gear but I upgraded my steel pants by like 30q from them. The stats were similar because if you look at the video I posted they opened us with similar openings that we opened on them. We dealt similar damage. The difference was that they made lots of stupid mistakes. I.e. that guy that went into the deep water while having 3 guys on your ass, you NEVER do that. He almost drowned. That's how we picked them off. Just mistakes because of their lack of skill. You have the whole ass video to back it up as I mentioned. I'd find more evidence but honestly I kinda don't wanna bother because it's buried under MONTHS of messages in our village chat. People think we have insane stats because of bots or w/e but that happened last world (which was old and stale at this point I may add). This world Snail had like 300 stats for the whole world.

[Justforthis]

As pretentious as it sounds when Haven had stakes it taught me a lot about people, myself, and the human experience. It's what I loved about the game, in spite of the moment to moment gameplay not being very fun.

I know you wouldn't fight back in most situations. Most people don't. I don't think you're lying, I think you're wrong. Believing you have a chance for success, and morale in general are so much more important than everybody gives it credit for. conversely, I am 100% confident I could make you drown yourself on a 10 stat character with hussar wings.

Again, pretentious, but it's a travesty that the game does not generate these experiences anymore for the sake of accessibility. Especially when the game is still wildly inaccessible for reasons that do not contribute anything positive.

Listen, it's not that I don't see your point. I played some legacy, haven with stakes was kinda tense and for me the experience was good. I don't think it's pretentious, learning things from games, movies or books can be just as powerful as learning things from real life shit homie.

You are wrong tough. Let me tell you about when I played Age of Wushu, which is what led me to this game. Off topic:

I played Wushu years ago with some dudes from /v/. In that game there was tons of wierd shit and rare as fuck drops completely random. One item which was sought after was completely randomly dropped by any possible npc, and the player that got it had it like a regular item until 18:00 server time. At that point if the player died he dropped the item and the item was contested like that for another 3 hours or so.
I got that item once. I asked the guild about it and other players and was informed that we in no way shape or form had the capacity to contest the item. So at 18 sharp I was gonna get top players (who could locate where I was when I had the item) hunting me down and murder killing me. My guildleaders who had reqruited me from /v/ told me to just take the L and be done with it at 18.

I traveled half the map to an volcano and jumped in at exactly 18:01. I was still killed like 3 times but thanks to my pure spite, no one got the item that day, except the volcano. One of the strongest players told me "you won".

So yeah, fuck ya preconseptions about me.

[Justforthis]

There could be a method for tracking/locating players who are online and who have combat stats within a certain range of your stats, like rustroot but for evil.
This exists too my guy, it's the scent system. If you want people with "equal or better" stats to be the ones to track you, all you have to do is raise stealth.

I wont go on a total "Why pvp/griefing/hermit hunting is a good thing" tangent, maybe ill make a future thread(?), but last thing I want to mention since I see this a lot is:
Why do people KO hermits when all their things are 10q or bad q compared to what they have?
The short, simple, and honest answer is curios. Finding and KO'ing people for curios is a legit strategy to the LP grind, it takes all the work out of making and finding curios and 1 KO/Kill can give enough curios for 1-2 days.

So am I mistaken arent skulls only good if you kill high level dudes? That's pretty balanced, it gives very little for spruce caps afaik.
The scents are only for tracking people who already commited crimes. I was describing tracking people who didn't do anything so you can initiate pvp for lulz and tension.

But overall yeah you might be right that it's not so easy making playerkilling more rewarding than it already is. That's still not, imo, a reason to enable griefing.

I am not against making sieging accesible, I am heavily against making griefing easy.

[DonVelD]

I also wanted to add that I don't want to grief people (unless they are fucking idiots) with siege, again, its a simple tool to initiate a trade offer of "do you want to fight, or lose your village". The goal is to fight but if they decide to not fight back then they lose their base. As simple as that.