How will UA-attack type damage be calculated?

[Nightdawg]

Cause these NEETs will eventually reach 6K+ STR again, and only have q500 b12's

So for all I know, UA moves will do more damage than Cleave, cause they have that cringe UA attack armor penetration which is like 3 or 4 times what a b12 has, and it doesn't care about your weapon's quality.

Anyway I'm just asking.

Also does it actually care about your UA weapons, like lynx claws or cutthroat knuckles quality? And what if you're wearing nothing on your hands or wearing other (non-weapon) gloves?

[Clemins]

It's going to be a wild ride

[HasseKebab]

6000 STR still gets 2factored by 3k str though as does 2k str by 1k, the damage values dont scale higher as long we keep within 2 factor but they would basically make armor a lot less effective against attacks which could possibly be a cause of concern.

1000 str against quality 350 armor, would reduce the effectiveness of armor class by 1.42. But your damage would still be 30 + 25(q250 brass knuckles) at full opening, which would still be less damage than the total armor class of around 70 if the original armor class was 100. Where it would start being dangerous is around 3000 str against quality 350 armor because the effectiveness of armour class is reduced by 4.2 turning that 100 armor class into 23.

[Nightdawg]

6000 STR still gets 2factored by 3k str though as does 2k str by 1k, the damage values dont scale higher as long we keep within 2 factor but they would basically make armor a lot less effective against attacks which could possibly be a cause of concern.

1000 str against quality 350 armor, would reduce the effectiveness of armor class by 1.42. But your damage would still be 30 + 25(q250 brass knuckles) at full opening, which would still be less damage than the total armor class of around 70 if the original armor class was 100. Where it would start being dangerous is around 3000 str against quality 350 armor because the effectiveness of armour class is reduced by 4.2 turning that 100 armor class into 23.

So what if I have no brass knuckles

Are my fists equal to q6000 weapons, or not? That's my point

[HasseKebab]

So basically we check if its 2 factor first by simply comparing your STR to enemy CON, is it in 2 factor? then your damage is equal to what it says on the KITO skill for example which is 30. If we have more than enemy CON 2 factor then we do the following math:

30 damage * ((STR/2)/CON) = X damage


You might just also be confused by the wording in the announcement thread, so just a quick explainer.
UA attacks = 100% STR
while
MC attacks = Sqrt(100% STR * Weapon quality)

[Robben_DuMarsch]

UA attacks damage have always been pure str, and MC attacks have always been the square root of your strength times your weapon quality.
The announced scaling changes to str/con have not changed the paradigm of strength outscaling weapon quality, and the theoretical point in which UA attacks could become better than melee weapon attacks is largely unchanged as a result (the effect I'd expect to see would actually be to make swapping to UA over bronze swords/b12s actually slightly LESS attractive).

Unless there is some bug in their implementation, there's no wizardry at play here that is going to cause some fundamental shift in the meta. Look to any changes in industry progression or actual combat changes to penetration or moves to see if there will be a shake up.

I'm curious to see if the volcano changes will effect spiraling. If the quality of smithed goods is less grounded in the quality of clay than it was in W14, that will be a strong indication that weapon and armor quality could scale higher and faster.

[Nightdawg]

So basically we check if its 2 factor first by simply comparing your STR to enemy CON, is it in 2 factor? then your damage is equal to what it says on the KITO skill for example which is 30. If we have more than enemy CON 2 factor then we do the following math:

30 damage * ((STR/2)/CON) = X damage


You might just also be confused by the wording in the announcement thread, so just a quick explainer.
UA attacks = 100% STR
while
MC attacks = Sqrt(100% STR * Weapon quality)

their damage is fixed and weapon attacks use √(Strength · Quality) instead of just Strength to calculate their damage ratio.

With 6k str and q500 b12, my damage weight would be sqrt of 6000*500, so sqrt(3,000,000) which is 1732ish

So my damage weight would be 1732 with a q500 b12, but 6000 with an unarmed attack.

Is this not correct?

[HasseKebab]

yes thats correct mate

[Nightdawg]

yes thats correct mate

So if I attack someone that has q500 armor, and 6000 con, my bare hands will do more damage cause his armor weight will be 1732, but my bare hand damage weight is 6000.

Is this correct?

But in reality only the NEET will have 6000 str, and the functional member of society that also has a life will not have 6000 con.
so his armor weight will be even lower

And UA moves have a higher armor pen too

That's my point, which part did I not understand right from jorb's message?

[HasseKebab]

Armor weight is just the armor quality without CON so q500 armor is 500 weight.

So in this edge case scenario where 6k vs 6k with q500 gear with 100 openings and say 100 armor class. Cleave would deal 32 damage minus opponents remaining armor class of 57 for a total of 3 damage. While the Kito would deal 30 damage minus remaining 16 armor for a total of 14 damage.
https://i.imgur.com/xCBeZUt.png < Kito hit at 100 opening vs 16 armor.

Rather funny how it comes down to dealing that little damage. As mentioned before it definetly looks like Cutthroat knuckles will be the super late game weapon of choice if they give flat damage which scales with quality. Luckily it will take several months before anyone even reaches the threshold where Melee attacks begin to fall out of 2 factor of opponents CON, which is around 3000 STR/CON if we're counting with a 500Q B12.