Proposal: Its time all credo's got a rebalance.

[Pills]

original angry rant

Doing miner, just went from 5/5 6/8 to 4/5 8/8 after getting 6 quests in a row asking me to deliver silvershine. If I had it, i would have delivered it.

I'm aware this is just absolutely fucking terrible RNG luck, but if somebody is abandoning a quest, maybe don't give them the same quest multiple times in a row?
finish a quest then immediately get another silvershine quest which I abandoned, then a study 3 petrified seashell quest. Which, while in itself isn't entirely unacceptable, is an absolute kick in the teeth after going down an entire level of progress.

Can you just fucking not? Credo cancer is really starting to get old fast now. Its about time they all had a complete rebalance and removed this critical pain point from the games existence.

Its funny that with mystic getting its makeover it went from being the worst credo to do to actually one of the most interesting/engaging.

So the largest problem with why Credo's are so negatively viewed is because of the absolute insane discrepency in percieved time it will take to complete each quest. What this means is that when completing quarryman, you may get a "mine 10 feldspar" which, if you know a spot is a 5 minute quest, or if you don't like 1 hour max to find a node. However you may also just get a "Study x3 Petrified Seashell" which is a 4 day 12 hour quest. This is insane and is laregely to blame for the overall negative perception a lot of credo's have.

My proposal here is to rebalance each credo so that the percieved time expectations are reasonable based on credo tier and each credo is thematically accurate in what it produces as there are some outliers. The idea being that it is not a complete redesign of credos, instead with respect to the current system a rebalance so it is more reasonably achieveable by the devs and would just improve everything about what we have currently. Would also not need a world reset to just rebalance. Sucks for people who've already completed stuff that gets nerfed, but such is life.

A credo tier in this instance is entirely devised from this image on the wiki, where the 'tier' is determined by the number of credos required to unlock access to it. But starting at 1, not zero, so Fisherman,Hunter, Forager are tier 1.

I also think its time we got rid of the endlessly increasing quests per credo completed and have that capped per tier. it just feels stupid that somebody rushing scholar at the start of the world only has to do 36 quests but if somebody does cave hermit first it would be 60 quests.

This will also entirely focus on the quest lines, not the rewards/benefits.

I also think people should have the option to reroll a single quest per 24 hours without abandoning progress, i know people see this as a band-aid issue, but honestly, it would feel infinitely better and the game would respect everybodies time more by having this.

Proposal to rework each credo:
Forager - Tier 1 - 2 quests per level.

- The biggest pain point although slightly less, is seasonality. Just remove quests that aren't for the current season or the one before it.
- Cap study quests a 12 hours.

Fisherman - Tier 1 - 2 quests per level.

- For a credo all about fishing, it has a real hatred towards beavers and swans. It just makes no sense for a 'fisherman' to be HUNTING for beavers and swans. Remove these.
- Cap study quests at 12 hours.

Hunter - Tier 1 - 2 quests per level.

- Cap study quests at 12 hours.

Farmer - Tier 2 - 3 quests per level.

- Remove trellis crop quests entirely, they're just bad and everybody hates them.
- Have reasonable numbers, planting 100 pumpkins is batshit insane. Planting 10-25 isn't.
- Actually give quests for plants that are discovered so far, people getting quests to plant flax when nobody discovered it for like 4 weeks was kind of crazy.
- Cap study quests at 18 hours.

Lumberjack - Tier 3 - 4 quests per level.

- Lumberjack is honestly fine imo. Having to eat beaver thematically just feels weird but i get it.

Mystic - Tier 3 - 4 quests per level.

- Mystic is legit the most engaging credo now. though I would still say remove 'experience event' quests, i think I had 2 of those and instantly abandoned them.
- Cap study quests at 24 hours.

Quarryman - Tier 2 - 3 quests per level.

- Cap study quests at 18 hours.
- Don't ask to visit cave layer X when nobody in the world has gotten there yet.

Miner - Tier 3 - 4 quests per level.

- Cap study quests at 24 hours.
- Don't ask to visit cave layer X when nobody in the world has gotten there yet.
- Honestly just remove the rare ore quests, they're just bad for how rare they are compared to everything else.
- Remove stalagoomba related quests, they're far too rare.

Tailor - Tier 3 - 4 quests per level.

- Cap study quests at 24 hours.

Nomad - Tier 4 - 5 quests per level.

- Cap study quests at 48 hours.
- Remove taming quests, it just feels stupid and makes no sense that a wandering nomad would have a homestead somewhere that they are trying to beat a horse into sumbission. Thematically nonesense.

Strider - Tier 5 - 6 quests per level.

Other than some study quests being unreasonable, strider is pretty sound imo.
- Cap study quests at 60 hours.

Cave Hermit - Tier 6 - 7 quests per level.

- Remove experience events, they're just poorly designed time gates and everybody hates them.
- Cap study quests at 72 hours.
- Remove stalagoomba related quests, they're far too rare.

Gardener - Tier 3 - 4 quests per level.

- Make it more reasonable, it takes such an insane grind to make 500 garden pots just to make the credo bearable. instead of "plant 60 dandelions" just ask for 10-20. same for harvesting.
- Cap study quests at 24 hours.

Blacksmith - Tier 6 - 7 quests per level.

- Don't ask for dumb shit. "Craft 5 troll helms".
- Cap study quests at 72 hours.

Potter - Tier 3 - 4 quests per level.

- Cap study quests at 24 hours.

Gem Hunter - Tier 3 - 4 quests per level.

Honestly gem hunter is fine, thematically its quests and difficulty fit.

Pearl Diver - Tier 5 - 6 quests per level.

Same as gem hunter, thematically its quests and difficulty fit.
- studying/picking mother of pearl is a bit of an awful requirement, but rerolling would fix that when its not achievable in a reasonable time.

Cook - Tier 4 - 5 quests per level.

- Cap study quests at 48 hours.

Scholar - Tier 5 - 6 quests per level.

- Cap study quests at 72 hours.
- Don't ask for things that literally do not exist yet. Last world I got "study yule lights" months before the first christmas had even happened.

Herder - Tier 6 - 7 quests per level.

- Cap study quests at 72 hours.

Wandering Sage - Tier 6 - 7 quests per level.

- remove experience events. everybody hates them.
- Cap study quests at 72 hours.

[noindyfikator]

credo is not for players, it's for jorb and loftar to have fun seeing how players suffer while playing the game

[Massa]

sorry but nah i just don't care enough about this game for that

aint no one doing this shit bro just feeding your character takes like an hour

[Alayah]

Credo quests are by far the least fun aspect of this game. The randomness of the quests and also what you are asked to do - interact with random stones, trees; and there are probably millions of them, all looking identical! - makes these quests feel super meaningless and like a waste of time. Good game design makes you forget that you are basically just burning time. Here you are given time to contemplate your life choices while you are on your way to the next stone with a piece of hay.

The boni however are so impactful - and thats great- but at the same time this is the reason why credos are not really optional if you want to be effective in a certain a certain role, e.g., miner. Usually when a new world is announced I ask myself if I can bring myself to go through all those credos again. I like the game very much but this is what basically decides if i pick it up again. Sometimes, like in W14, the answer is no.

Got screwed by RNG doing forager by seasonal quests that couldnt be completed. Not something you want to get stuck on while others are already working on miner. Almost made me delete my char.

What I'm saying is that keep the creods as they are but make the quests a bit more bearable.
Several solutions come to mind, some of them perhaps also bandaids:
1.) Always offer 2-3 quests you can pick from or always offer 2 items you can do to complete a part of a quest. "Harvest 20 flax or 30 beets".
2.) More rerolls.
... or 1 + 2 for extra QOL!
3.) Credos are predetermined quests/achievements not random.

[Pills]

sorry but nah i just don't care enough about this game for that

aint no one doing this shit bro just feeding your character takes like an hour

Why even comment if your attitude is "i don't care enough about this game", wtf are you even doing in c&i?

[maze]

I already know people who are on their 15th creedo.
Damn people have all the damn luck sometimes...

Alayah suggestion might at least be a little more barrable... but honestly Creedo need a rework; from quest, to each creedo theirselves. Some creedos are just so powerful that they're required to play the game, almost like druidrites for planting a damn tree.

Skills and Creedos should somewhat align. The LP to buy them should be removed and changed to be quest to Improve new player experience.

Some creedos make sense to be repeated and taken to higher tiers: Fisherman -> Seasoned Angler -> professional Fisher -> Master Fishermen

The idea should be a big rework.

[The_Blode]

sorry but nah i just don't care enough about this game for that

aint no one doing this shit bro just feeding your character takes like an hour

Why even comment if your attitude is "i don't care enough about this game", wtf are you even doing in c&i?

follow my method, if a user has 4 digits or more in their post count, they are not a real person, they are a "forum character" for your entertainment.

And yeah, I finished a credo for the first time ever this world and felt almost nothing. The effort that went into it really ablated the satisfaction gained. I'm all for a once-in-a-while freebie re-roll, mostly because I don't know enough to fully grasp whether a quest is worth attempting or not. I bailed on what turned out to be an easy quest and it really bothered me every time i saw opportunities to clear that abandoned quest

[Massa]

sorry but nah i just don't care enough about this game for that

aint no one doing this shit bro just feeding your character takes like an hour

Why even comment if your attitude is "i don't care enough about this game", wtf are you even doing in c&i?

"this would take an unreasonable amount of time and effort for even the more dedicated of the game's population, therefore it is perhaps not a good idea"

buckshot>credos

forager should be 1 quest, 3/3 levels to start and the max amount of quests for a credo should be 15

[foomanchu]

Solid suggestions. Would definitely reduce the pain of doing credos which are probably my least favourite thing to do ingame.

[abt79]

Nah reducing the number of quests per level is and always has been a bandaid fix

Credos suck because of what the quest tasks actually are: random bullshit that is at best net zero benefit to your progress and at worst a waste of resources and time. They’re the worst kind of deadend minigame only propped up by necessary rewards (forager speed buff, quarryartz, etc)

Credos would only ever be a good mechanic if their quests encouraged productive tasks rather than doing the exact opposite