Palisade Wall Costs

[Halbertz]

That's 'good cop'? Well, it's definitely a part of some kind of routine...

The cost wouldn't make visitor's gates less accessible, because that would require it to be difficult to obtain the resources to build one. Key word: One. A hermit only needs one or two visitor's gates. If a hearthling can't obtain a couple pieces of cloth by the time they've put down two bone glue, ten ropes, five leather and several hundred blocks of wood - and most likely another gate as well - it should be easier to get a couple pieces of cloth. What the cost would do is discourage building visitor's gates everywhere so the owner can dodge the inconvenience they're creating for everyone else, rather than for their purpose in the game design.

All the cost adjustments I'm suggesting share this common thread: The incentive structure they create is progressive. Players who are building at a small scale are impacted less by them than those who are building massive sprawl. Increasing the cost of straight wall sections and decreasing the cost of corner posts, to 7 and 15 or even to 5 and 20, would help with that. Yes, in this game walls always have to go in cardinal directions, but they don't have to form rectangles or squares, they can form many shapes.

The most basic 20 by 20 palisade more than 50% of its wood blocks put into just its five corner posts and a small gate. A 2000 by 2000 pallisade might have, for example, four width 3 gates at the midpoint of each side. That's ~600 blocks in 24 tiles that are not straight wall sections, 24,000 blocks in ~8,000 straight wall tiles.

When corners cost 10 times as much as straight walls, this not only discourages building any other shape, it also discourages building small. The 2000 by 2000 palisade costs (only!) ~62 times as much, but encloses 10,000 times as much space! Increasing the cost of wall sections, especially relative to corner posts, rapidly brings that back into balance, in addition to all the other benefits, without making it easier to start building a palisade in the first place.

It's beside the point, but if the people you're calling 'hermits' were actually hermits, they wouldn't want visitors' gates because they wouldn't want visitors.

Okay first of all, grinding cloth outside of farm is tedious. Your changes prevent 90% of the players having palisades before farm plot, that breaks proper game progression - cave hideout, claim, 8h of waiting, palisade, 8-48 hours of waiting, safe base to do whatever you want. Bases that are not connected with outside world by visitors aren't safe, period.
>A hermit only needs one or two visitor's gates.
According to you? Can I see the source of this information? Most of people I know, building at least 1 gate on each side.
>What the cost would do is discourage building visitor's gates everywhere so the owner can dodge the inconvenience they're creating for everyone else
People that try to do some "inconvenience" don't care about your one cloth change, mate.
>they can form many shapes
Or can be square, because personal claim extension is rectangular, village claim extension (both water and land) is rectangular, all buildings are rectangular.
>it also discourages building small
Why I should build small, when I can build big? Building small is uncomfortable and also not safe for reasons you probably don't understand.
>they wouldn't want visitors' gates because they wouldn't want visitors
Smart enough folks build visitors because "visitors" will come in anyway, the difference is amount of collateral damage.
>That's 'good cop'
"Okay, retard" is response you deserve, I guess.

[Aerona]

More gates becomes important for larger bases. Small bases often can't have a gate on one or more sides because there's one or more buildings occupying too much of the wall for there to be room left over. My source is, as with everything else I've described in this thread, what I've seen built in the game. Aside from that though, there's the pure mathematics of it. There's little value in building several gates when even one gate costs a major fraction of the cost of the entire palisade.

I'm all for making grinding cloth outside of a farm less tedious. Primitive cloth is a new feature in world 15, I suppose it still needs some refinement. The problem you're describing can be fixed by bringing the difficulty of gathering wildfibre in line with that of that of acquiring palisade first cornerpost resources, which I'd argue it should be anyway (and it was for me, perhaps because I focused on gathering rather than hunting early on.)

Regarding 'people who try to do inconvenience', it's not them I'm concerned about, the main problem is people who aren't trying to do harm to others but are scared and straining to be competitive - they're the ones who go the hardest to exploit the current system. They will care about costs because they're worried about falling behind. If they have to pay more to build, travel further to get resources and spend more time on expanding their claim, then they have to consider whether it's worth it before they build something that's going to force everyone else to spend an extra five minutes to detour around them (or wait for a battering ram to dry, which incidentally takes the same time now...)

Personal claims are always rectangular, yes. Village claims can be but don't have to be. The initial claim is not that large, with expansions it can be any shape. Water, mountain cliffs and other villages outright force more interesting shapes, and the current pricing structure discourages villages from being placed in those locations because the palisade costs are much higher for less area. The pricing structure doesn't need to make squares so much more efficient in cost when they're already naturally more space-efficient. As long as corner posts aren't so cheap that they're built instead of straight wall sections, it should be an improvement to make their cost closer to that of straight wall sections. I don't see any reason for the pricing structure to be the way it is now unless the game design intend is to encourage players to build giant, almost featureless squares, which seems rather backwards. Easy gates, especially visitor's gates, just compound the problem by removing the downsides of building walls everywhere.

Why I should build small, when I can build big? Building small is uncomfortable and also not safe for reasons you probably don't understand.

What I'm saying is that it should cost more so that there's a reason. Like I said earlier, if cutting down more trees is required, other players will have more reason to give you reasons to dial it back. You'll also want to build smaller palisades so you have more time and resources for other things, so you won't destroy the biome you settled in and lose access to its spawns unless you invest heavily in tree-planting (assuming you care and it was generated by trees, at least). When you build big, you make things uncomfortable for other players. It should be uncomfortable for you, too. And yes, it's less safe, but that's a good thing. The game is not fun if it's easy to be safe by protecting yourself in a ring of concentric squares. Not to look at, not to play, it even takes the fun out of griefing when you have to spend so much time on breaching and you can't even see your handiwork without walking for minutes to survey it all. It's only fun for people who just want to shut out the world while still having as much of it as they could ever want shut inside with them. And that's broken. It might as well be not be an MMO if that's intentional.

I'm not sure why I bothered giving you a full response considering how much depth you're displaying, but you're not doing a good job if you're trying to patronize me. Would be nice if more people on these forums were able to talk without sounding like they're trying to figure out a social pecking order in a middle school cafeteria.

[Ø]

I'm a retard that likes to steal other peoples stuff and it's really inconsiderate of them for building walls when I want to steal their stuff. I want to be able to see the siege equipment I used to steal peoples stuff without having to walk around.

Glad we got to the bottom of it. Real reason you want these changes is to have easier access to other peoples stuff.



Also, you expect someone to make cloth before secure claim can be built when a loom requires a house or else it takes decay damage? smh

Hunt for fiber for primitive cloth when it's a limited localized resource that only spawns during the start of the game and only in specific biomes (as far as we know)...




Okay retard.


Square peg; round hole.

Just ask for diagonal walls or corner posts that can be rotated to make a non-rectangular base.

[DDDsDD999]

[Aerona]

Theft is part of the game. Or it would be if it weren't so easy to build giant palisades that there's almost no space left for theft to actually happen. I'd like other people to have access to my stuff, too, because it's more interesting that way. Maybe not my best stuff, I'd like to put that somewhere safe. But having all my stuff somewhere safe? That just means I don't have to play the game. It's boring. Worse, it means no one else can play the game either unless they do it from behind a battering ram, which makes the damn thing run hot and cold.

What's so bad about building a house before securing a claim? Everyone I know did that. As far as I knew that was what everyone does. Building a house is not difficult, and you can't build a palisade until you have a cauldron, rope walk, and days to wait for hides to dry and leather to cure. Are you saying you just lay out in the grass that whole time and don't bother building a loom? Why? The loom and the rope walk require the same resources to build!

Wildfibre is a new addition to the game, it can be refined. If it's too hard to obtain that can be changed. And it probably should be, because it's another feature that makes the game more balanced by allowing nomads and dispossessed players to perform basic tasks without having to maintain their own farm or trade with someone who does.

I wouldn't mind the addition of diagonal walls, but they wouldn't deal with the main problem, which is the sheer ease and lack of consequences for constructing palisades at a massive scale. I doubt they'd see much use unless it was to save costs, because claims are made of squares, structures are square, and everything else in the game is placed on square tiles so nearly everything else would be hard to fit or look bad next to those walls. Reducing the penalty for building cornerposts and making it less easy to build extremely long straight sections would be a much more efficient way to encourage more visual variety and reduce the incentive to avoid building in locations where additional corner posts are required to make use of the available space.

[strpk0]

lmao, even

[DonVelD]

this hermit is right, those humanoids deserve to suffer

[Ø]

lmfao

Stupid thief can't get in palisades to steal things; goes to forums to complain about it in a the form of a suggestion. KEK


Make siege craft cost more just to troll the OP.

[Aerona]

I haven't even bothered to buy Trespassing. It's amazing how you can manage to lack imagination and come up with unhinged fantasies at the same time. Watching you flail at your strawman ideas of me is like watching cats on catnip clawing at a scratching post.