Give Storm of Swords the Jugular treatment

[Nightdawg]

Make it cost 3 IP, open 25 yellow, and only hit 3 targets for 100, 110%, and 120% damage.

If it's still obnoxiously OP, you nerf it more.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

Storm of Swords makes onboarding new players into PVP less client dependent (not even Havoc has the focus fire features and call-out features from other clients) and arguably allows them to contribute meaningfully even if they aren't sweaty.

I know there are a lot of people who enjoy the cleave meta because it's "more skill expression," but as the eternal champion of getting new players involved in the game I must disagree that should necessarily be the goal.

Despite protests to the contrary I think Storm of Swords isn't even necessarily meta at Meteors, and to the extent that it is, it's meteors only. Right now SoS is the only real alternative to cleave... And only in large group combat situations.

I'd suggest keeping an eye on the actual data behind utilization and KOs before making a change to SoS.

[Nightdawg]

Robben if you're afraid your brainless zerg won't be able to fight a smaller group of competent people without SoS, you guys can still spam SoS if you outnumber them even after this change, or even just spam cleaves like people did after combat equalisation.


This isn't regarding your village, I'm talking about competent people who started using it, same way we were using jugular in world 14.

[overtyped]

b12 is used a lot already, even now. If SoS is nerfed even a little, b12 is going to take over again, and we will go back to the old days where it's the only thing you see.

This isn't really the same as the jugular days. In the jugular days people only used that. But it's fairly competitive these days.

Sting could use a slight buff, to put them on par with the others.

[Nightdawg]

You give the entire playerbase a "one button spam meta" and you guys will still end up being the ones that suffer from it, but you don't realise this for some reason.

You can't comprehend the fact that a set of experienced players will use this ONE BUTTON META much better than your newbie zerg? The point is to teach your newbies to get good at combat, not to press one button, lol.

I understand that you think this change will hurt your group, but it literally changes nothing for your group, and my proposed change doesn't make swords useless. I'm suggesting small adjustments here.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

You give the entire playerbase a "one button spam meta" and you guys will still end up being the ones that suffer from it, but you don't realise this for some reason.

You can't comprehend the fact that a set of experienced players will use this ONE BUTTON META much better than your newbie zerg? The point is to teach your newbies to get good at combat, not to press one button, lol.

I understand that you think this change will hurt your group, but it literally changes nothing for your group, and my proposed change doesn't make swords useless. I'm suggesting small adjustments here.

If that happens I'll absolutely come back here, admit I was wrong and dumb, and suggest the change.
Even if players could use SoS better than us, I don't see players dropping cleave right now though. It's very strong for it's ability to instantly create kill pressure as soon as an enemy missteps. SoS has almost no kill pressure, it's all peel pressure.

[overtyped]

You give the entire playerbase a "one button spam meta" and you guys will still end up being the ones that suffer from it, but you don't realise this for some reason.

You can't comprehend the fact that a set of experienced players will use this ONE BUTTON META much better than your newbie zerg? The point is to teach your newbies to get good at combat, not to press one button, lol.

I understand that you think this change will hurt your group, but it literally changes nothing for your group, and my proposed change doesn't make swords useless. I'm suggesting small adjustments here.

I don't necessarily care about storm. I care that it's keeping b12 from being the only good way to play.

Remove b12, and remove storm of swords. I would be in favor of this change.

[Nightdawg]

Remove b12, and remove storm of swords. I would be in favor of this change.

Or allow both to be reliable in different circumstances?

[overtyped]

Remove b12, and remove storm of swords. I would be in favor of this change.

Or allow both to be reliable in different circumstances?

Believe it or not. Right now, I see as many b12s as I see storm of storm's being used. Faction players like the kill potential of b12 more than they care about anything else, but it's too expensive. Noobs can't afford it, which means we are removing a large group of people from pvp, damaging the entire scene.

[Nightdawg]

I don't see players dropping cleave right now though. It's very strong for it's ability to instantly create kill pressure as soon as an enemy missteps. SoS has almost no kill pressure, it's all peel pressure.

Cleave has been chipping pressure since World 13. SoS just makes it 10 times easier and dumber.

Remove b12, and remove storm of swords. I would be in favor of this change.

Or allow both to be reliable in different circumstances?

Believe it or not. Right now, I see as many b12s as I see storm of storm's being used. Faction players like the kill potential of b12 more than they care about anything else.

Cause this world they started with UA and they can't respec.