var = destroying a quest giver is a crime

[serVar161]

Idea. Make destroying a quest giver a crime.

Reason. Because it's a crime. More serious than trespassing.
It ruins the game for many people. And with impunity. I think it would be fairer if it were possible to track down this... bad guy.
Also, making the destruction of a quest giver a crime would prevent their accidental destruction—if crime mode is disabled.

What type of crime would it be:
Option 1: Murder (harsh, but fair). After all, they are sentient beings.
Option 2: Vandalism (most likely). Or they're not sentient, but something about this place is causing people to have intense hallucinations.
Option 3: Equate quest givers with the player, and treat all crimes accordingly (the least likely option, with its pros and cons).

[FaithfulToadd]

+1 for Option 2. Murder seems too harsh but Vandalism seems fair, as long as the questgiver isn't claimed by the one attempting to remove it.

I'm not clear on what Option 3 offers, exactly, or how it differs from Option 1.

[serVar161]

+1 for Option 2. Murder seems too harsh but Vandalism seems fair, as long as the questgiver isn't claimed by the one attempting to remove it.

I'm not clear on what Option 3 offers, exactly, or how it differs from Option 1.

Option 3 essentially assigns the quest giver an NPC rank. It's sort of a combination of 1 and 2. Hitting something to destroy it = assault or vandalism. Destroying it = murder.
Increasing the crime's severity will allow someone to reconsider and not destroy.

In scenarios 1 and 2, there's no reason for the bad person to stop. So, in the case of murder (1), the smell will appear after the destruction and won't get any worse. In the vandalism or assault (2), the smell will already remain after the first blow and won't get any worse, so there's no reason to stop.

*If desired, you can add a number of actions that could be considered theft or vandalism. Stealing a leaf, chipping off a piece of stone.

[serVar161]

After reading this post about blocking quest givers with palisades and the reason for doing it, I realized I hadn't considered alts.

Even if destroying a quest giver were a crime, they'd still create alts they wouldn't mind destroying.

Therefore, to combat this tactic, I propose making quest givers "durable"—like some buildings or walls—so that it would require 200+ (approximately) strength to destroy.

This will prevent unfair play with alts, as well as accidental cutting down by people who don't see these quest givers.

You could issue a standard warning, "You're too weak to do this," or something more original, like, "No matter how hard you try, you can't even scratch this tree/stone. And you think it's alive."

[Dawidio123]

Thanks for marking your posts with "var =" this way i can ignore them easier.

[serVar161]

Thanks for marking your posts with "var =" this way i can ignore them easier.

You're welcome. But you're not very good at it yet.

[Hasta]

Sigh.

-1.

Explained multiple times in great detail why, so just bullet points:
1. Anything that makes a questgiver identifyable without having a quest WILL WITH NO UNCERTAINTY ABSOLUTELY INEVITABLY attract griefers to hunt and destroy, block or stalk questgivers with NO regard to ANY "punishment".
2. Questgivers are neither rare nor valuable, losing a familiar and conveniently located questgiver is a minor annoyance at worst, you can spawn your own questgivers (by destroying those that are too far from your base and communing with nature) and frogs on rocks spawn like crazy all over the place (and frequently destroyed because they're easily identifyable, refer to statement 1.).

This was discussed ad nauseum, there were some suggestions that take both these statements and your concern into account, use the "search" function.

[serVar161]

Explained multiple times in great detail why, so just bullet points:
1. Anything that makes a questgiver identifyable without having a quest WILL WITH NO UNCERTAINTY ABSOLUTELY INEVITABLY attract griefers to hunt and destroy, block or stalk questgivers with NO regard to ANY "punishment".
2. Questgivers are neither rare nor valuable, losing a familiar and conveniently located questgiver is a minor annoyance at worst, you can spawn your own questgivers (by destroying those that are too far from your base and communing with nature) and frogs on rocks spawn like crazy all over the place (and frequently destroyed because they're easily identifyable, refer to statement 1.).

This was discussed ad nauseum, there were some suggestions that take both these statements and your concern into account, use the "search" function.

Yes, this will allow the quest giver to be identified, and what you've said makes sense. The problem is the blocking.

In other cases, identification doesn't cause any harm. They already do everything you listed. However, it will be possible to figure out who's doing it. And due to the high stat requirements for destruction, it won't be a newly created alt—that would be a player character who play some time, if not their main one.

This will also prevent the situations you mentioned in point 2: if you don't like how far away they are, destroy the quest giver and hope they appear closer. And the fact that you'll ruin everyone else's quests is irrelevant. That the quest giver will appear in a location inconvenient for others is irrelevant.

Again, following from point 2: it's okay if they identify and destroy questgiver —it's not a big loss. However, it won't be as easy as it is now, and not with such impunity. Not for everyone, but for many.

The problem, as I said, is the palisade blocking. I don't yet know is it necessary change this. Although it is very easy to solve. But this solution has its downsides. Мy proposal concerns destruction.
I'll search for the threads and read more carefully the proposals and arguments for and against them. But I don't think these measures will make things any worse than they already are.

[Hasta]

identification doesn't cause any harm. They already do everything you listed.

The only way to identify a questgiver NOW is to get a QUEST related to that questgiver (we disregard frogs in this discussion). And it is the only reason you don't have all the questgivers fucking WIPED OUT everywhere. Any time some idiot marks a tree with a cute little paving around or builds a road with a questgiver-like name, a putrid griefer spreads his slimy wings and grins in anticipation. So, no, you're WRONG, any way to identify questgivers will bring much more problems than it would solve to the situation in question.

And now for the harsh part.

Questgivers are NOT A PUBLIC SERVICE. It's a natural resource-like commodity that can be taken, guarded, hoarded and so on. You are NOT ENTITLED to questgivers. You can't deny people honest-to-god ability to hog all the talking trees to themselves or to sculpt the chatty boulders locations more to their advantage. They are not using some illegal vile sorcery, they use a cunning move of "playing the game and using intended mechanics to get ahead and ensure positive outcome". That may be unfair to YOU and some others, but it's fair to them and they are allowed to do so.

Noone is obligated to NOT make YOUR life in Hafen harder by making THEIR lives easier - you're not a factor unless you interfere. If they can block a convenient to them questgiver, ensuring it's safety from griefers and easy questing, well, put up or shut up - destroy the palisade if you can, or move away if you can't, you are not entitled to anything unless you are able to claw if out of this cold unforgiving world. Rainbows and unicorns and everyone loves and cares about everyone else - it's in the next game just around the corner. Be okay with it of move on.

I like your passion and I consider you a valuable member of this game community, but in this case you state quite a preposterous paradigm on par with "people guarding their stuff and it's unfair, I want to be able to use their stuff too".

I'm positively fuming. And I'm not even a pvper, just a common sense hearthling.

[FaithfulToadd]

And now for the harsh part.

Questgivers are NOT A PUBLIC SERVICE. It's a natural resource-like commodity that can be taken, guarded, hoarded and so on. You are NOT ENTITLED to questgivers. You can't deny people honest-to-god ability to hog all the talking trees to themselves or to sculpt the chatty boulders locations more to their advantage. They are not using some illegal vile sorcery, they use a cunning move of "playing the game and using intended mechanics to get ahead and ensure positive outcome". That may be unfair to YOU and some others, but it's fair to them and they are allowed to do so.

This is actually a fair point; I agree. I just happen to appreciate the idea of 'crimes against the Hearth' (criminal acts are described as 'breaches of the hearth-law' in the lore) including killing its inhabitants: namely, spirited trees and rocks and so-forth. I've always thought of quest givers as representing distinctly spiritual beings -- completely different from hunting wildlife for food and clothing.

Killing one should bring bad fortune in some way.

If they can block a convenient... questgiver, ... well, put up or shut up - destroy the palisade if you can, or move away if you can't, you are not entitled to anything unless you are able to claw if out of this cold unforgiving world.

I agree with this, as well. The real problem is that palisades are too difficult to destroy!
I'm being 100% sincere, but obviously this is an incredibly controversial sentiment.

P.S.

I'm positively fuming. And I'm... just a common sense hearthling.

Oh, there's that blasted phrase again... /smh