Shops

[Potjeh]

A while ago I decided to become a bread & pastry producer and salesman. Since then, I've had a grand total of three customers. All of them bought in bulk, so it seems to me that trading on smaller scale is just too much hassle for most people. It involves a lot of walking and coordinating online time, so in the end it's easier to just make the item yourself. People randomly wandering to my place and buying goods is right out, because it's a rare event and I'd have to be shackled to my house 24/7 to ensure I'm there when someone who might be interested in trade strolls by.

So, what am I proposing? A new shop building. It'd look something like a market stand, and have at least a chest-sized double inventory (one inventory for items for sale, another for storing your payment). In there you could deposit items you want to trade away and specify what you want for a unit of each type of item you're selling (example: 20 cast coins for a loaf of bread). Then, a customer could come to your shop even if you're offline and buy items. With the theft skill, he could withdraw items from your shop without paying anything. If your shop is on claimed land this would leave a theft clue.

One problem with this type of trading is that it doesn't involve player interaction, so it could make H&H ever so slightly more single-player. Then again, right now trade is virtually non-existent anyway, so it wouldn't remove any existing player interaction. Still, to keep direct trade as preferred method, I suggest that some sort of wage would have to be paid to the invisible NPC that's running your shop. One cast coin per tick, ie 6 cic an hour or 144 cic a day, would be balanced, I think. When a shop runs out of these wage coins it simply ceases to work and can be "refuelled" with more coins to continue operating as normal. You, of course, can always deposit and withdraw items from your shop, no matter if it has "fuel".

Another neat thing would be ability to set goods to be automatically moved between the two inventories. So, for example, you could set your shop to buy bread for 15cic a loaf, and then put that bread in the "for sale" inventory at 20cic a loaf. Naturally, you should be able to set limit to how many items of each type your shop will buy.

[Hamel]

I definitely agree with everything in this suggestion. Shopkeepers and guards would really be the NPCs I would like to see the most, if not the only NPCs I would like to see.

Edit: I suspect that this would make merchant caravans a lot more feasible.

[Talvara]

Yes, We need this. Espessially when we want to kickstart an economy, I further propose that a skill to be able to set up shops be added for quite a decent cost and that market stalls be limited to a small set amount per player. (maybe even just one)

Also... it might be nice if you could set... "working hours" for your shops, I.e you choose if your shop is open during the day, or during the night?

I don't even think the npc has to be invisible.. if it ends up so that shops are open for limited times during the day/night an NPC inside the stall could be used as an 'in service' sign.

maybe there could also be a sort of 'warehouse' that sells items by the bulk to make trading between colonies easier, Basicly 'shops' sell items by ones and two, and warehouses would sell Baskets or chests full for easy wagon trading.

shops would then be built by players... and warhouses by the chief/lawspeaker of a village

[Hamel]

Perhaps charisma should affect NPC wages.

[JTG]

I don't want to see NPC's period. As you go from a PLAYER-DRIVEN game to a NPC-DRIVEN game. Where YOU DON'T EVEN ASSOCIATE WITH OTHER PLAYERS, and YOUR NPCS DO ALL OF YOUR WORK. Hopefully You'll get this before the game becomes generic mmo #32 thanks to player stupidity and laziness.

There is a economy, and its doing just fine. Get over it. Nobody wants your shitty little farm produce items. So get mining.

If you want a coin based economy. Start getting people to endorse coins, people are reluctant right now. Stop asking for Jorb and Lothar to hold your hand. etc

Now that I see who the op is. You live in fucking bottleneck. People like Blaze and the laketown inhabitants trade all the time, And look at how well they are doing. They are rich, and powerful and can probobly roll you and your entire settlement fast.

MOST OF THE NORTH trades with each other. I don't know what the fuck you are talking about. WE don't talk about our trades we just move them.

Fuck. Why don't you work with what you have instead of begging for help. For dwarf fortress players you are pathetic.

I'm no economist, BUT its not that hard to start a coin economy. First off start mass producing coins. Second off start bulk trading and endorsing them with generous amounts of resources. Once everyone has stockpiles of coins and has good feelings about them, and theres lots of places that take them. BAM you have a coin based economy, Object value will find its own way. There will be many values for one object but they will slowly surround single numbers as people find a general value based on work for objects.

[Potjeh]

If you can't present your arguments in a polite and reasonable manner, sod off.

[JTG]

Get over it. I don't respect you or bottleneck period. The only places and people that I show any regard to are probobly blaze, raph, and laketown

[Potjeh]

*/wrist*

[Vanigo]

Well, there's one potentially interesting tidbit in that little tirade. Could someone more... credible comment on the state of the northern economy? Bottleneck is, I'll admit, kind of underpopulated for much trade to go on.

[Talvara]

Relax guys, this board is for Ideas and Critique. Ideas should be discussable, so if you have any toughts on the subject share them. but dont turn this into another flamefest, it doesnt help the idea, and it doesnt help the game.

On another note, Please try to give your opinion without swearwords and unneeded use of capital letters, it only discredits your own post.

I Honestly believe that a Shop building/npc would stimulate coin economy in a positive way, The prices would still be set by players and players alone ofcourse, but the power to "tend a shop" is simply not available to a player since it would require them to be online JUST for that, and really... that shouldn't be what this game is about. (this ofcourse is my personal opinion)