Marksmanship: the ultimate fix

[stickman]

Right now you basically aim at an object and you have a % chance of hitting. There really is no hand eye coordination skill involved other then choosing when to fire.

My proposal for an entirely new system.

You wont click on your target or their portrait. instead you point your cursor in the direction you wish to fire. the aimer would look simular to the system used for tracking scents... when you start aiming the aimer will be a very large triangle and will slowely shrink in size over time.

You can move your cursor to point at a different area but your aiming triangle will become large again until you keep your cursor stationry for a few seconds.



To fire you will simply click again.

When you fire the game code will spawn a fast moving object which will go in a random direction confined to the aiming path at the point of firing. To better understand this think of silk moth spawning at the tip of your bow and flying in the direction you are aiming but much much faster. Because it is a spawning object loftar will be able to use collision detection with this object and trees/rocks/walls.


Things this will fix:
1) shooting over walls
2) shooting from off the screen
3) people running back and forth 1 foot infront of you to make so you cannot aim.
4) machine gunning noobs even when they are running with a high q sling
5) allow targets who are fleeing rangers to use the forest and walls/rocks to evade.

[halloween]

I like this idea because of the last point..fleeing rb's and snipers..Other than that it would be a pain for the newbie to use a sling to hunt..

[Gauteamus]

Interesting idea.

Say you have taken aim for a long time, as in picture 4.
Does the red line extend - all the way to the screen edge?
- until it intersects a hitbox?
- just to the "prospecting radius"?

[stickman]

I was thinking a little further then prospecting radius but I guess it could extend up to your cursor.

[DatOneGuy]

Shooting over walls should still be doable, if not new types of walls.


Whether you have to get up in a tree to do it or whatever, it should totally be doable, these walls are totally short and it's totally possible to shoot someone over them

[Gauteamus]

D1G: I was thinking the same, and actually in the progress of making some mockup images.

You get two ranged attack options, either the LoS shot, which can be pretty accurate, given that you have time to aim, and have a clear line of sight.
But you can also choose to shoot ballistically, where you simply click the attack button, and click any point within shooting range (whatever shooting range may be). A large circle centered on the point you clicked starts to slowly reduce in radius as you aim, but will never shrink beyond a certain radius (maybe increased MM will decrease this aiming limit, but only to a certain degree - a ballistic shot will always be inaccurate. When you are pleased with your aims radius, you release the arrow with another click, and the arrow will hit a random location within the circle. Any char within the circle, whether hit or not, will be alerted that a shot has been fired (you will engage in combat).

The mechanic can be made to work in a number of ways, but I think that, if I approach your walled farm with an army of say 20 semi-skilled archers, you should not safely be going about your daily routine just because the wall is blocking direct Line of Fire.

[DatOneGuy]

D1G: I was thinking the same, and actually in the progress of making some mockup images.

You get two ranged attack options, either the LoS shot, which can be pretty accurate, given that you have time to aim, and have a clear line of sight.
But you can also choose to shoot ballistically, where you simply click the attack button, and click any point within shooting range (whatever shooting range may be). A large circle centered on the point you clicked starts to slowly reduce in radius as you aim, but will never shrink beyond a certain radius (maybe increased MM will decrease this aiming limit, but only to a certain degree - a ballistic shot will always be inaccurate. When you are pleased with your aims radius, you release the arrow with another click, and the arrow will hit a random location within the circle.

The mechanic can be made to work in a number of ways, but I think that, if I approach your walled farm with an army of say 20 semi-skilled archers, you should not safely be going about your daily routine just because the wall is blocking direct Line of Fire.

Oh yes, that sounds like a grand idea, also allows me to get a lot of archers and do that cool 'block out the sun' thing they do in movies

[Sarchi]

This would wreck archery as a viable style of combat. For example, when you are trying to help your team mates during a fight, your comrades would surround the enemy. Because of this, the system that you proposed would mean that you would shoot your friends instead of the people that you actually want to kill. Plus, if the movement of your cursor manipulated the direction that you aimed at, one slight movement of your hands could bump your mouse and make you aim at a different target. This causes needless extra stress during a high-stakes combat scenario, where there will be nervous movements of the hands.

Likewise, removing the archer's ability to shoot from behind obstacles also makes the archer completely worthless due to the enemy (say, a melee fighter) to just rush the archer and down him in no time at all...

I'm speaking from personal experience as an archer. I don't think the aiming meter or the ability to shoot from behind obstacles is what is broken, although there could be some changes made to how combat works when the archer shoots someone that is on the other side of a wall.

I believe the changes you proposed would make people not mess with marksmanship at all. (I can imagine Avu saying something to this extent. :p)

All styles of combat should be fully viable to use, and people should have incentives to use them. Arbitrary changes to the combat system (and I'm not saying that your idea lacked serious thought) tend to further imbalance the combat system. A prime example of this is the recent change to the combat system that made melee combat weaker and less effective.

Here are some problems I see with archery, however:

-Marksmanship bypasses the defence bar
-Due to being able to ignore the defence bar, an arrow is easily capable of doing enormous damage.
-Marksmanship isn't really viable for PvP until it reaches high levels.
-Slings and wooden bows are useless for PvP.

[BWithey]

This causes needless extra stress during a high-stakes combat scenario, where there will be nervous movements of the hands.

The calm mind hits the target.

Likewise, removing the archer's ability to shoot from behind obstacles also makes the archer completely worthless due to the enemy (say, a melee fighter) to just rush the archer and down him in no time at all...

Which really is as it should be. With both hands full of bow, you're rather defenseless at melee range.

I'm speaking from personal experience as an archer. I don't think the aiming meter or the ability to shoot from behind obstacles is what is broken,

I like the aiming meter, I like this evolution of it more. I agree that shooting from behind obstacles isn't a 'problem' per se, but I'd prefer to see it be an issue one has to take into consideration.

although there could be some changes made to how combat works when the archer shoots someone that is on the other side of a wall.

Which should definitely happen.

I believe the changes you proposed would make people not mess with marksmanship at all. (I can imagine Avu saying something to this extent. :p)

All styles of combat should be fully viable to use, and people should have incentives to use them. Arbitrary changes to the combat system (and I'm not saying that your idea lacked serious thought) tend to further imbalance the combat system. A prime example of this is the recent change to the combat system that made melee combat weaker and less effective.

The recent change to the combat system was needed to balance out how effective melee combatants were. The unstoppable uber-character is never a desirable end result in a game. There should always be a very real threat from even mid-range combatants against high range combatants. This is not WoW, there is not, nor should there be, the unstoppable lvl 80 monstrosity.

As far as archery, if this *DID* make archery weaker (and in many ways it would make it more effective, not less) that is a needed change with the recent melee change. However, I don't believe this would be the case. It mitigates the whole 'dancing to keep their aim off' defense, without making it non-viable, it takes away the 'run if you like, you'll just die tired' aspect by making dodging through the forest a viable option. Also, it would allow for walls to remove the ability to see beyond them, while still permitting archers to fire past the walls. (A desirable combination in my book)

Here are some problems I see with archery, however:

-Marksmanship bypasses the defence bar
-Due to being able to ignore the defence bar, an arrow is easily capable of doing enormous damage.
-Marksmanship isn't really viable for PvP until it reaches high levels.
-Slings and wooden bows are useless for PvP.

Marksmanship bypassing the defense bar makes a certain amount of sense to me, but only until I get up to go to the fridge. But I think you're right, Marksmanship SHOULD be affected by the defense bar, like any other weapon.

Slings are hardly useless for PvP, they're just useless when an enemy has metal armor. I'm ok with that element, what I'm not ok with is the fact that it doesn't matter if your enemy is wearing only a metal breastplate, not a helm or leggings. There should be a chance to hit with a sling, even against metal armor, unless the enemy is a walking tin can. (Something which isn't possible right now).

[Oddity]

Slings are hardly useless for PvP, they're just useless when an enemy has metal armor.

Which is everyone who is capable of participating in real PvP, and then some.