What use is the latest "upgrade"

[Raephire]

Well i don't feel like i need to keep busy finding ways to store stuff. the devs never implemented it so i ain't playing untill it's fixed.

If you dont continue playing, and suggesting ways to fix things, it destroys the purpose of being in ALPHA to begin with.

[JTG]

Hes used to whining until he gets features to help him.

[sami1337]

They "forgot" To first give us a way to lock stuff away before adding this.
I am not saying we need a way that's impossible to reach by thieves. Just so it's not possible to just walk in as a newbie and take everything and it should atleast make it hard for thieves to hide.

[kobnach]

I think it's been made pretty clear that most of us want _some_ absolutely secure storage, suitable for processing valuable objects - i.e. capable of including steel-makers, herbalist tables, and possibly drying racks - and also storing a small amount of goods, in particular tools and raw materials needed to (re)build after being looted.

If all storage were absolutely secure, there'd be no conflict at all, and pretty soon very little challenge. But with no security at all, it seems some proportion of players are wondering whether to bother continuing to play.

If I were designing this game, I'd consider making a person's home be their castle (or Haven) - inviolable. It's small enough that there will be spillover outside, and one must make tradeoffs, but large enough that one can manage some meaningful production in it.

[Rift]

i personally have strong feelings against any impossible to steal from / destroy situation, i merely wish it was harder then it currently is.

[JTG]

Kobnach, the fact of the matter is I'm playing legitly. I've been broken into. But I'm not a dumbass like sami who leaves all the good stuff out in the open.

The name of the game is adapt and survive. Not whine and quit whenever you lose. if you aren't dead you have a chance to recover.

Ultimately in the end you learn from your mistakes, and make something better and more perfect. People like sami grasp onto the innovation and ideals from others, aka the vaults, and quit whenever that idea fails.

[Raephire]

They "forgot" To first give us a way to lock stuff away before adding this.
I am not saying we need a way that's impossible to reach by thieves. Just so it's not possible to just walk in as a newbie and take everything and it should atleast make it hard for thieves to hide.

Agreed, They should introduce two skills. Locksmithing and LockPicking. Both should use a skill - Security.

So a good thief would need to meet the skills of the locksmith who produces the locks in order to unlock gates, doors, chests, or trapdoors (In the case of mine shafts) This would once again create a balance.

Bone Walls, Rock Walls, Wooden Fences, would be destructible by hand but will not be easy to destroy, Would take a very very long time by hand, REAL hours of constant attack.

Unless they belong to a city and create a seige machine.

Reinforced fortress walls and gates which would require steel to create would be indestructible by hand and would take a seige engine a fair amount of time.

Allowing for these features isn't really a suggestion as much as it is a requirement now.

We have lunatics hellbent on making the game shit for their own entertainment.

[kobnach]

Kobnach, the fact of the matter is I'm playing legitly. I've been broken into. But I'm not a dumbass like sami who leaves all the good stuff out in the open.

The name of the game is adapt and survive. Not whine and quit whenever you lose. if you aren't dead you have a chance to recover.

Sami left the good stuff in a secure vault, and the game changed underneath him.

And yes, I agree, you are playing legitimately. In fact, I begin to suspect that you are precisely the type of player the game is intended for.

That's why I'm suggesting that the game be renamed - take the "haven" out of it, since it doesn't exist in the game, and doesn't seem likely it ever will. That way the game will get fewer players who expect security, and those who do remain will be happy.

[JTG]

Well, that is indeed a good point. But I enjoy the fact theres risk. I don't want to burn out logging in day to day doing the same things. I want disasters, thieves, and murderers around so its not stupidly menial.

I also want risk. What sami wants is a game with no risk where things can happen but nothing can "Ruin" you. I want a game where you can get fucked over six ways to sunday. This game gives me that.

It doesn't force me to do anything, I don't have to like a player, I don't have to be forced to see him live. I don't have to watch people lord their superior items over me.

I can fuck them over just as bad as they can fuck me over.

[loftar]

i personally have strong feelings against any impossible to steal from / destroy situation, i merely wish it was harder then it currently is.

I agree, with both of those points. The problem is how to make it harder; one option (at least a makeshift one) would, of course, be to raise the cost of the black skills, but I'm afraid all that will mean is that griefers will be macrogrinding their characters. It should be done in some way probably more similar to the FEP system or by introducing quests or similar, such that any macro for grinding would have to be a macro that actually plays the game.

Bone Walls, Rock Walls, Wooden Fences, would be destructible by hand but will not be easy to destroy, Would take a very very long time by hand, REAL hours of constant attack.

The problem with that is that it sounds good to begin with, but I'm afraid that it can just as well be used for griefing. I'm sure everyone remembers the drying rack griefing...

Likewise, imagine someone picking the lock on your cabin and then replacing it with a new one of their own devise.

I think it's safe to say that both of those features are coming, though.

Sami left the good stuff in a secure vault, and the game changed underneath him.

While I can understand his frustration, it must be noted that the game is alpha, and that by necessity means that game mechanics must and will change, which in turn will lead to investments turning out to be bad after a future change. Frustrating though it might be -- especially for people, like Sami, who have large investments of various kinds -- the only option would be to stop developing at this point and call the game finished.

What sami wants is a game with no risk where things can happen but nothing can "Ruin" you.

I don't really think so, though. I can't speak for Sami, but I, for my part, think that there has to be a difference between protecting your stuff from the Bad Lad Gang and not being able to protect your stuff at all because, as someone said, any noob can come and take it. In the latter case, I agree that it isn't worth playing, because it's more or less impossible to do anything meaningful.

It's not clear how to strike a balance. If possible, I'd like to design the game such that there isn't a hair-fine balance that can be destrought by virtually nothing and that Jorb and I will have to fine-tune constantly, but rather a stable equilibrium between safety and the Bad Lad Gang. Time will have to tell if we manage to get it to that point.