The Boat Club

[Peter]

I know that boats are planned for H&H in the future, but what are these plans? I have a few theories about what we might see, and of course I understand that boats are most likely a distant goal. At the very least, we know that they will only appear once deeper water is present.

Still, it's fun to imagine what we'll get, so here's what I'm thinking.

First off, we'll get at least three depths of water: Shallow, where you can walk much like now, Deep, which you must swim* in, and Sea, which is just as impassible as deep, but has other effects.

*Swimming has a constant stamina drain and may limit your actions. At very least, you can't carry things while swimming. If you have no stamina, you start to drown.

Boats can then be defined by the shallowest water they can pass.

Raft:
Moves at a crawl when rowed, but can be polled at a walking pace- though this can only be done in shallows. Holds goods like a cart, or can have a person in a slot. Takes X Blocks, probably no more than two log's worth.

Rowboat:
Moves at a crawl with one rower, at a run with two. Has five slots, only two of which can hold someone. Takes X boards and X Blocks.

Galley?:
Has a sail, allowing it to move at up to a run with the wind, though it's usually a walk. May also seat from two to four rowers. Having two increases the speed by one step, and four decreases the stamina cost of rowing. Can carry up to eight total passengers, each one taking up one of 16 cargo slots. Cannot pass through small areas or shallow water. To build it would take 4 X blocks and 3 X boards, large amounts of flax cloth for the sail. And probably some kind of material for caulking.

Now, all those are doable with the current system; in fact, they'd basically be modified carts (given the ability to lock characters in place on the boat). Now, here's where things get a little more complex- large, walkable boats. That is, a boat surface that you can stand on, and walk around on while the boat is moving. These large boats would almost certainly be limited only to Sea, and would require resources on par to several cabins to build. Further, they would need to be wind-powered, but luckily would be more efficient at sailing into the wind.

A few last notes: Traditionally, it is possible to put a "Boat" onto a "Ship" without sinking either. This is not the case in the reverse. This gives us two items to note; loading life-rafts onto big boats, and a rule of thumb for naming these vessels.

Despite what one may think, it is possible to sail into the wind; by setting the sail right, one can create a suction effect much like the way a plane's wing produces lift, which pulls the boat to one side. Skilled sailors can use this to move at a 45 degree angle into the wind, then swap sides and continue, eventually ending up straight upwind of the origin.

[Jfloyd]

I like this.
As for the caulking agent. Blood makes a very nice seal when boiled, and then is painted on. It was used in antarctic voyages, for the ships warrenty was not void if a seal was broken.

[Peter]

Another thing I wanted to mention about boats- it should be able to log-off while on a boat, and get dropped off at a destination while still logged off, allowing one to use a boat trip for practical, long-distance, travel. Of course, there could be problems with shifty captains dropping you off on desert islands or something, but the combination of teleporting to the RoB or home and word of mouth about untrustworthy sailors should be enough to offer some protection.

Then there might need to be something implemented to prevent absurd amounts of things being crammed into ships that use floor space as opposed to cargo slots. Maybe a weight element?

As for the skills, I would think that to start, boat-making and shipwright would be separate skills. Rafts are so simple that they could be built with carpentry.

Now, rafts and carts are very similar items. I would like to see each one, when empty, take up two slots on the other. Thus, you can carry a chest and a raft on your cart until you reach a river, put the raft on the water and put the cart, chest, and yourself on the raft and cross, then switch back and continue on. Also about rafts; while in shallow and deep water, they are controllable, in Seas, the stronger wind currents make them move at sometimes up to a walking pace in the direction of the wind, making them impractical for long sea voyages.

And now the walls of text are over.

[Krantarin]

It's really good to hear some concerted ideas on sailing, especially ones coming from someone other than me . Part of why I haven't been playing as much is because of my new-found obsession with sailing. Although I'm relatively new to the sport, I've already read eight or nine books on the topic and a ridiculous amount of Wikipedia articles. One interesting thing I was thinking about is that the large boats, Men Of War, Frigates, and even most merchant ships (pretty much every three mast ship [and some boats with less] with square sails) would only be able to move with the wind. They lacked the ability to move the sails around (too much, at least), and thus couldn't take advantage of the physics of sailing. On the other hand, the smaller sloops and schooners (the ones with triangular sails) would be much faster and able to sail into the wind, depending on their characteristics. As all of we aspiring historians know, these faster ships didn't come to prominence until much later in history than the time H&H is based in. I think this may be a "technology" that Jorb can give villages as they advance, but I don't know how the Devs will do this. A boat like these sloops and schooners should have less space than a square sail ship, but should be able to move faster than a run.

[loftar]

As all of we aspiring historians know, these faster ships didn't come to prominence until much later in history than the time H&H is based in.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, both Jorb and I are quite great fans of the Enlightenment, so we'll probably let the tech tree advance quite a step further. :)

It does, of course, have to build upon the techs we already have, so it will probably progress through history rather naturally.

[ArPharazon]

Apparently Viking longships weren't that far behind modern sailboats in terms of speed, so it wouldn't necessarily be anachronistic to have fast ships.

[theTrav]

I believe at some point loftar was also thinking about implementing weight of inventories, so having 10 slots would not necessarily mean a boat could carry 10 carts with 4 big boulders in each. Attempting to make it do so could result in much hilarity.

[Krantarin]

As all of we aspiring historians know, these faster ships didn't come to prominence until much later in history than the time H&H is based in.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, both Jorb and I are quite great fans of the Enlightenment, so we'll probably let the tech tree advance quite a step further.

It does, of course, have to build upon the techs we already have, so it will probably progress through history rather naturally.

Good to hear it (as I'm sure I've said many times before)!

[Ferinex]

As all of we aspiring historians know, these faster ships didn't come to prominence until much later in history than the time H&H is based in.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, both Jorb and I are quite great fans of the Enlightenment, so we'll probably let the tech tree advance quite a step further.

It does, of course, have to build upon the techs we already have, so it will probably progress through history rather naturally.

It would be a bit odd for a new settlement though, to have other settlements 100 years ahead of them tech-wise. Perhaps you should start thinking about village wide technologies, and lowering the prices of said technologies as more villages get them.

[Krantarin]

Just an idea... maybe we could have "tech trading" and villages with more tech could give it, colonize, etc...