Thoughtful Criticism For The New LP System

[overlordror]

I realize the new LP system is going to bring in a lot of whiners and moaners with posts that are no more constructive than a fart in the wind, however I hope this post is a little different. Obviously there are flaws with the old system and flaws with the current new system that need to be ironed out. I understand that this is an alpha game with changes that come and go as Jorb & Loftar see fit. However, I really cannot understand the current benefit of the new system.

The very nature of a game is to reward the player for performing positive actions. Under the old LP system, this was done by rewarding an amount of LP every time an action was performed. Of course, this has the potential to be cheated all to hell, as bots are likely to do. However, most gamers are of my mindset. When I first started playing Haven & Hearth, I didn't log into the world and grind out three minimaps of forests into baskets/buckets for my LP. I performed a series of different activities in order to begin building my base.

I hunted for rabbits and rats for food, built a plow in order to pave the ground to build a house, cut trees to build cupboards to store the items I had foraged in the house and went on foraging expeditions to find string/edibles. I think that's the standard setup any newbie who is serious about playing the game will face.

Under the current system, I cannot do that. Instead, I logged in, performed every possible action that I could to gain +50 LP, explored a bit, crafted a few curiosities, raided a few ant hills, and caught a ladybug. Then I logged out. There was no point in me trying to built a house for cupboards, since I would not be able to get the LP to make a claim to keep my property from being stolen while offline.

When I logged back in a few hours later, I found a herd of aurochs. I pulled a piece of hair from one of the aurochs in order to get another curiosity to study, only to be completely pounded by the whole herd and my progress wiped out. Fair enough. Pulling hair from an animal probably would piss it off.

My problem with dying for such a simple action is that now I have to start over. Performing every single action I already performed at least once to get that minute boost to LP. Under the current system, gamers are rewarded for playing the waiting game, instead of performing activities that need to be done, such as plowing a field or planting crops, or mining for ore. The average gaming mind does not want to log into a game to craft items that will benefit him or her a few hours from now. Gaming has always been about instant gratification and once that is taken away, little else is left (especially for something as core to an RPG as the XP system).

So What Can Be Done?

About a year ago, Team Fortress 2 faced the same problem that Haven & Hearth does today. Valve wanted to stop achievement farmers who logged into servers and achievement farms to instantly unlock class items so they introduced the drop system. The drop system was a massive failure for the game because it chose at intervals, one person on the server at random to receive a drop.

This lead to people logging into servers that did not have an AFK kick timer in order to "farm" items. The longer you were logged into the server, the better chance you had to receive an item. This is a similar situation that Haven & Hearth finds itself in. Craft curiosities, logout, rinse and repeat until you have enough LP to do something useful for yourself, then repeat the whole process.

Valve knew the drop system was fundamentally flawed when achievement_idle servers started to number more than legit servers. In order to combat the issue, they issued the drop cap. The drop cap stated that no matter how many hours you played after a certain drop threshold, you would no longer receive items. Therefore, the average player who can dedicate 10 hours a week to the game and receives three drops is no better off than the 40+ hour a week person, since the drop threshold is crossed for both once they reach a certain number of hours played.

LP Threshold

I realize the sweeping changes were done in part to help combat bots and exploits in order to put players on equal footing. However, the current system is not fun for a vast majority of players. (If it's fun for you, great.) In order to make the game fun for those of us who want to sit down and play a game, instead of a Facebook reward program, here are some of the changes I propose to help combat botting/exploiting while rewarding legitimate players.

Proposed Changes

* Create an LP Threshold - Once a character has gained a certain amount of LP in a week's time, any other actions performed within that week do not reward LP.

* Require User Input For Long Sessions - I'm not sure how feasible this is for coding, but say it works like this: Player A has been logged in for four hours. The server initiates a bot check by messaging the player and requiring a simple random math problem be answered. If the message is not answered within 10 minutes, the player is kicked from the server. If you're online and actually playing, it's no trouble to answer a random PM of "What's 11 + 7?" To combat "message farming", the message could be delivered any time a player has been logged in for 2 or more hours.

* Consequences For Known Botters/Macroers - If you are caught gaming the system that is set in place to prevent macroing and botting, you should be IP banned. There have to be consequences for those who choose to set up bots in order to gain an unfair advantage against legitimate players. It is impossible to level the playing field completely for MMORPGs because people always have different levels of time available to be invested. However, botting should never be looked at with a blind eye, even in an alpha phase.

I'm not saying that curiosities are a bad thing or that they should be removed, but I do not think they should be the sole source of LP gain in a game that is as much of a time investment as Haven & Hearth. If you have anything to add, please do not hesitate to do so, but I would prefer it if we could all keep a civil tone when discussing the matter at hand and avoid stupid/troll/useless posts.

[Jackard]

jesus christ


world/system isnt even half a day old, yet we have wonderful advisors [with recent join dates] swooping in to save the devs from themselves with brilliant observations and plans, some of which run counter to dev philosophy (ex: bans)

[overlordror]

Jackard, if the devs are against banning then there really is no place for them to be developing an MMO (no matter how great the concept). Bad actions always have consequences and if Loftar & Jorb are not willing to take a stand against those who don't play without mechanical assistance, then the game is fundamentally flawed no matter what LP system is in place.

When Salem is fully developed you can bet your ass 100 percent that Paradox will enforce bans for anyone perceived as cheating the system.

[novaalpha]

ITT dumbass 2011er OP doesn't know how good the current system is.

Burn.

[Jackard]

Jackard, if the devs are against banning then there really is no place for them to be developing an MMO (no matter how great the concept). Bad actions always have consequences and if Loftar & Jorb are not willing to take a stand against those who don't play without mechanical assistance, then the game is fundamentally flawed no matter what LP system is in place.

When Salem is fully developed you can bet your ass 100 percent that Paradox will enforce bans for anyone perceived as cheating the system.

rather than wasting their time policing the playerbase, they spend it as they should: designing and implementing and modifying systems to encourage desired behaviors

the problem lies with the game, not the testers. treat the cause, not the symptoms

[Sleep]

Woah since of all the major drama about my post im going to just edit it.
Jesus.

[azaharov]

My sign under this

Really, I gather LP for 5 hours.
And now I feel boring.
At other worlds (3-4) i was farmer. It was really boring, but I know, that I will be rewarded and can spend this LP for something, that I like.
Now, I can't find some business, that will be interesting for me.

[Dropshock]

You guys are fucking pathetic.
This new lp way is a wonderful idea and quite new too, if you want to actually change it any way you are the dumbest shit i ever know, this prevents such thing as macroing and things that would be unfair, now mostly everything is balanced and such and you people are crying over about it.

Really?
Go and actually read the OP. Yeah. The whole thing. Then maybe you wouldn't look like such a dumbass.

[azaharov]

everything is balanced

Really?
Than how you explain, that my friend can gather LP from fir every 15 minutes, and I can't?

[OvShit]

everything is balanced

Really?
Than how you explain, that my friend can gather LP from fir every 15 minutes, and I can't?

By killing himself?