the White Boat Project

[zubadab]

In the sixties in Amsterdam, there was a so called "white bycicle plan" this consisted of hundreds of white painted bycicles that were placed all over town without a lock. everybody was allowed to take these bycicles across the city.

It failed horribly but that's no reason not to try it again, think of failling as deferred succes. This time with boats obviously.

why? Because there is nowhere to go for new players, swimming is not an option and you need ten trees to make a boat. Tere is only one tree. It is quite a long walk, I have escorted 3 new players i met to that tree an donly one of them stayed around for the whole trip. I have been looking around the forums and have seen a lot of talk lamenting the lack of players. I think one of the reasons that there are no new players is that it's a 5 minute walk (through a maze)to afaik the only place where you can get branches to start earning skill points. Most players wouldn't even bother.

i think some sort of community effort like free boats and maybe some sort of ingame environmentalist agency for planting trees is kinda necessary if you want new trading partners/playmates/griefing opportunities.

[burgingham]

lol

[jorb]

It failed horribly but that's no reason not to try it again, think of failling as deferred succes.

Spoken like a true communist.

[Chakravanti]

TO be fair, communism works on a microsociological scale. The larger the community though the faster and harder it fails. Anything large enough to require the Marx Central Banking System will undoubtedly just become fascist fiasco.

[jorb]

TO be fair, communism works on a microsociological scale. The larger the community though the faster and harder it fails. Anything large enough to require the Marx Central Banking System will undoubtedly just become fascist fiasco.

Yes. Communism is fairly well suited for small tribes, especially if one wants to prevent them from ever developing into anything more complex than that.

[Chakravanti]

Yes. Communism is fairly well suited for small tribes, especially if one wants to prevent them from ever developing into anything more complex than that.

You know, for as much as you diss communism, you set up Xanadu to be about as communist as it gets.

[jorb]

Yes. Communism is fairly well suited for small tribes, especially if one wants to prevent them from ever developing into anything more complex than that.

You know, for as much as you diss communism, you set up Xanadu to be about as communist as it gets.

Hmmm? I never said anything about banning private property, or made any demands of the kind. I even remember pointing out the tragedy of the commons possibility in the case of the missing cavebulbs. We shared some communal resources, but, as you said, that works fine in small communities. A family unit or the like. Communal resources, as they can develop as a voluntary societal institution, is not something I mind, it's often a very practical solution.

[loftar]

TO be fair, communism works on a microsociological scale. The larger the community though the faster and harder it fails.

Just for the sake of the argument, I'd say that isn't so much dependent on scale as it is on the kind of relationships between the people involved. Humans, being flock animals, do seem to have some kind of built-in intuitive ethics that makes such thing as communal resources and whatever work, but it only takes effect between people who know each other very well -- family, close friends &c.

Many of the collectivist dogmas seem to be extremely heavily based on those intuitive ethics, clinging to such tired phrases as "if only love could prevail" or "treating strangers as brothers" (meaning, of course, that intuitive ethics should be applied to all levels of society), and fail to realize that it is impossible, because strangers are strangers, and not brothers. Outside of one's group of very close friends, intuitive ethics do not work, and it isn't a matter of any quantitative change from small to large group. If anything, groups that are too large for every member to know every other member very well are those that are "too large".

Of course, none of this should be construed so as to say that individual at any time whatsoever does not act perfectly egoistically.

[Fluffy]

Wow, even the devs are prone to extreme off topic thread derailing. You're starting a debate over communism because he suggested free boats

[Lothaudus]

think of failling as deferred succes.

No, that's just for the English. Everyone else still calls a fail a fail.

why? Because there is nowhere to go for new players, swimming is not an option

... and yet it only costs 500 LP. Adding another zero or two to the end of that might convey a more realistic situation and save some nubs from needless deaths.

i think some sort of community effort like free boats and maybe some sort of ingame environmentalist agency for planting trees is kinda necessary if you want new trading partners/playmates/griefing opportunities.

I'll give the idea credit. When I started I was lucky enough to find a boat. Once I had that, I was away. Very quickly I'd ended up up-stream in a spot that had all the trees I could ever need. Of course, with a few other people we then ran around nicking unattended boats so we could ferry more people up. If only we'd known of hearth porting...

Leaving boats in a specified unclaimed area West of Brodgar next to the river would be a nice idea. I suspect many of them would be "borrowed" and not returned however and it would be a constant effort to ensure a boat or three was always available. Generally if you walk next to the river long-enough you'll run in to one sooner or later though.