Replace instant travel with fast travel

[theTrav]

I've been flogging this horse for a while. I'm convinced if I keep doing it long enough It'll come back as a zombie horse.

Teleportation encourages hearthlings to experience smaller areas of the map, interact with fewer other players, brings a weird "build gates you will never use" mechanic into play and is generally something I find a bit odd.

I suggest replacing it with an upgraded milestone mechanic. One that works properly for carts on roads, but also allows people to upgrade the milestones (or just build bigger ones to start with) in such a way that they can be followed at super high speed, using travel weariness, without stamina drain.

To get the same exponential cost of large jumps, I recommend having the cost per second have a ticker that ticks up as you're traveling, and ticks down as you are not traveling

[sabinati]

man i agree that there are some problems with teleportation and everything but i'd rather see a system like this side-by-side with the teleportation system than replacing it.

i swear if they remove hearth teleporting i will cut someone(you)

[Jackard]

Arent we still waiting on fixes for milestones?

[theTrav]

Arent we still waiting on fixes for milestones?

Yeah, my suggestion is perhaps ... ahead of it's time? (a nicer way of saying pre-mature)

I kind of intended to allude to that by saying one that works properly for carts.
Something would also have to be done to handle the big hole you have to poke in village security by letting people walk in and out.

man i agree that there are some problems with teleportation and everything but i'd rather see a system like this side-by-side with the teleportation system than replacing it.
i swear if they remove hearth teleporting i will cut someone

What do you get out of tele that you wouldn't get out of this? Do you reckon it would just make you achieve less? Or would it get you to play the game differently (structure your actions based on your location, transporting bulk goods etc)

Having the system work side by side is a valid idea, there's certainly nothing technical stopping both implementations

[Avu]

To get the same exponential cost of large jumps, I recommend having the cost per second have a ticker that ticks up as you're traveling, and ticks down as you are not traveling

So I'm like traveling on my pimp wagon and my ticker goes way up and I like have to stop and then do ehm what? Alt tab until it cools down? I mean if it followed the same drink some wine I'm right back up I could get with the program but your suggestion is simply nonsensical. You still need to get to wherever the fuck you need to get, doing other stuff in the middle of fucking nowhere on some lame road is not going to happen because you have to protect the stupid cart and there really isn't much to do forcing you basically to not even not play but to alt-tab.

Something would also have to be done to handle the big hole you have to poke in village security by letting people walk in and out.

Like what? I can basically hide behind a gate or a tree or whatever and there is absolutely nothing one can do to prevent me from entering a village that opens up the worse than useless gates. Having keys makes it like 10 times easier. I don't even need to sprint in for the gate I just need to kill the noob that just got out of it.

What do you get out of tele that you wouldn't get out of this?

What do you get out of your wagon crap that you don't get out of teleportation? Silly people wasting weeks building useless roads? More griefing potential? I mean hey what would be a good way to spend ones time I know traveling from milestone to milestone destroying them without scents of course. If you make them hard to destroy then you have to make them hard to build as well so they don't get used for blocking shit. If you make them hard to build then you make the entire process take fucking too long to even bother.

Do you reckon it would just make you achieve less? Or would it get you to play the game differently (structure your actions based on your location, transporting bulk goods etc)

It would rob me yet again of my ability to do whatever the fuck I want when I want without it feeling like work. If I need to build up a fucking road 5 grids away just because the would be trader that has gold is located there who when he sees his road done decides that he won't sell gold to you after all because let's face it you can like make thanes with that I will say fuck this I'm gonna play something else something that is actually fun... And even if I do build the retarded shit and some grieffers decide hey it's easy to fuck with the idiots that build roads let them work for it more fun there. I can brickwall my village I can't fucking stop idiots messing with a road.

You seem stupidly focused on just the retarded realism aspect and you close your mind to the larger picture. You did the exact same thing with stockpiles. "Remove signs remove signs storing stuff in signs is EVIL, it offends my sensible nature looms everywhere baawww" until I think jackard pointed out that signs are actually stockpiles without the fucking graphics.

[theTrav]

To get the same exponential cost of large jumps, I recommend having the cost per second have a ticker that ticks up as you're traveling, and ticks down as you are not traveling

So I'm like traveling on my pimp wagon and my ticker goes way up and I like have to stop and then do ehm what? Alt tab until it cools down? I mean if it followed the same drink some wine I'm right back up I could get with the program but your suggestion is simply nonsensical. You still need to get to wherever the fuck you need to get, doing other stuff in the middle of fucking nowhere on some lame road is not going to happen because you have to protect the stupid cart and there really isn't much to do forcing you basically to not even not play but to alt-tab.

Yeah, if you're going to make a long trip you're going to have to make pit stops along the way.
My suggestion here doesn't give you any less range than you already have with your teleports, in fact it gives you more range if you're able to plan your journey out to have pit stops along the way.
I suppose it's not really critical to enforce that, as longer distances are going to take more time to travel anyway, I just figured it'd be a good way to get people meeting at pit stops etc.
There can be a whole mechanic around building stuff to make that ticker cool down quicker on your pit stops (which also encourages people to stop at the same place and share that infrastructure)

Something would also have to be done to handle the big hole you have to poke in village security by letting people walk in and out.

Like what? I can basically hide behind a gate or a tree or whatever and there is absolutely nothing one can do to prevent me from entering a village that opens up the worse than useless gates. Having keys makes it like 10 times easier. I don't even need to sprint in for the gate I just need to kill the noob that just got out of it.

I definitely agree with you that the current implementation of keys is pretty pov. Jackards Idea of permission based keys is probably going to make you the happiest. I reckon levers and timed openings (close after x seconds) would also work reasonably well to replace keys (players place the lever when building the gate)

As for someone being able to hide near the entrance... Come on man, that's not hard to take care of.
Build your gate on the south side of town, clear cut anything in sight of the walls (don't you already do that to stop stealth rams?) and if you're super paranoid, use Darki's hacked transparancy client.

What do you get out of your wagon crap that you don't get out of teleportation?

I didn't intend to suggest that a wagon was required to use this mechanic

Silly people wasting weeks building useless roads?

I didn't intend to suggest that road building was 100% required to use this mechanic.
I know I mentioned carts and roads, because the current implementation is annoyingly broken, and I do think that roads should have a positive effect. But I don't think it should be a must have for fast travel.

It would rob me yet again of my ability to do whatever the fuck I want when I want without it feeling like work. If I need to build up a fucking road 5 grids away just because the would be trader that has gold is located there who when he sees his road done decides that he won't sell gold to you after all because let's face it you can like make thanes with that I will say fuck this I'm gonna play something else something that is actually fun...

That example seems pretty incoherent avu... You're going to go 5 grids to go to a trader that won't trade with you? What? I also want to point out again that building a road that far shouldn't be necessary, however some sort of infrastructure would be (mile stones) and yeah, crossing 5 grids with them should probably take a while.

You seem stupidly focused on just the retarded realism aspect and you close your mind to the larger picture.

The main motivations I gave was for encouraging more use of the map space, more chance encounters and interactions with other players. I think you're making an incorrect assumption that realism is my driving force in this particular suggestion.

You did the exact same thing with stockpiles. "Remove signs remove signs storing stuff in signs is EVIL, it offends my sensible nature looms everywhere baawww" until I think jackard pointed out that signs are actually stockpiles without the fucking graphics.

Re-read that thread, maybe start at the end and go backwards.
My stance was, and still is, that sign traps are ugly, stick around too long and I don't like em as a mechanic.
Someone brought up that making sign traps decay has a negative impact on people who want to use signs as stockpiles.
I feel that using signs as stockpiles is a work-around for not having proper stockpiles. Stockpiles should not be tied to sign trapping.

Regardless, I don't see this topic as having anything to do with signposts and stockpiles

[Jackard]

You did the exact same thing with stockpiles. "Remove signs remove signs storing stuff in signs is EVIL, it offends my sensible nature looms everywhere baawww" until I think jackard pointed out that signs are actually stockpiles without the fucking graphics.

I feel that using signs as stockpiles is a work-around for not having proper stockpiles. Stockpiles should not be tied to sign trapping.

they
are
the
same
thing
just
with
different
graphics

in fact build signs should automatically use different graphics based on the majority material inside (WITHOUT DECAY you masochists) but this is such an unimportant and trivial change that its not worth discussing

[burgingham]

How exactly would your system encourage chance encounters? I would rather argument that it decreases the chance to meet anyone. Either your travelling system works kinda like the old one, only that you drop out of fast travelling when there is something in your way or you run low on your travel weariness, or you could watch your guy travel. But lets face it, who would do that? As in all tedious and repetetive tasks in this game I would just tab to my browser window and read something or watch a video. Never even noticing if some guy at the side of the road would be yelling at me that he sells gold for apples. With the current system I can just teleport to Nople and always find somebody to chat or trade with.

The time it takes to build a meaningful infrastructure was already mentioned by avu. Nobody would build roads crossing several supergrids and you just cannot rely on having people nearby who can trade you for everything. Either because of the map generator or because of them stopping to play, not being online at the times you play etc. So while I agree that a better distribution of ressources is necessary and would improve trade your idea kinda goes for the total inabillity to have everything no matter how much effort you put into it, just because you spawned at the wrong end of the map.

One last thing: What about inner city teleportation? It would be annyoing as fuck to have that removed.

On a related note we would need a new village management system when this ever should see the light of day. Satellite towns would be necessary, as well as the already mentioned change of gate mechanics.

[Jackard]

trav stop your admitted trolling of the forum with your terrible verisimilitude suggestions tia

[Potjeh]

Kingdom claims to protect the roads from vandalism would also be nice.

But the point is that you *shouldn't* effortlessly travel to any point of the map. The current setup makes the map too homogenous, and I think that a world with a bit denser civilization centres would be more interesting. That, and I think it's lame how factions can instantly project their military power to any point in the world.

But yeah, travel by roads should be instant.