Beer is currently inferior to Wine.

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Beer is currently inferior to Wine.

Postby Dataslycer » Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:06 am

There are two types of alcohol in this game: Wine and beer. Both serve the same purpose of reducing travel weariness (and reducing FEP needed through variance bonus). However for almost all purposes wine is superior to beer in many ways

  • Beer gives more hunger which is not good as it fills hunger but provides no FEP.
  • Wine needs wine glass which is created from burning sand in a kiln which is easy to access. Beer needs a tankard which is created from tin, which requiring to prospecting a mine, making it less accessible to some players.
  • Wine later on becomes vinegar which is used for cheese, one of the best food in the game. Beer is not useful in any other way.
  • Wine grinds grapes into grape juice in a wine press and poured in a wine barrel to age into wine. The grape seeds are preserved. To make beer, you need to put wheat in an herbalist table for germinated wheat, then cooked in a kiln for malted wheat, then grinded at a quern for wheat grist, then boiled with hops to make wort before placing in a wine barrel to age into beer. In otherwords you did 3 additional steps you didn't need to do with wine while takes much longer (mostly due to herbalist tables).

The only advantage beer has over alcohol is that beer can be stored in barrels without fear of it being changed into something else making it easier to transport. Otherwise, there is almost no reason to make beer as wine does pretty much everything beer can with much more ease.

The solution that will make beer more useful is to make the tankard a symbel item that can hold beer in it with the table bonus provided dependent on the quality of the beer inside independent from the tankard quality which provides table bonus in itself. Each time, someone eats at a table, a liter of beer is drained. The solution will create the following effect

  • Because the table is a highly desired feature of the game, it will be consume at a fast rate.
  • It will justify the long production procedure of beer.
  • People that are persistant with beer production may find their high quality beer in the barrel may be a good trade commodity even if they do not have the tankard.
  • Hops would actually have a use now.
Last edited by Dataslycer on Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Beer is currently inferior to Wine.

Postby DatOneGuy » Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:27 am

Uggh yes, I hate how useless hops is because beer is just terribly inferior to wine. I think I made beer twice before saying fuck it. The only time to bother as it is if you want to store some for the long run (due to leaving in barrels)
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Re: Beer is currently inferior to Wine.

Postby burgingham » Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:46 am

Very well thought out and a good idea. Yes please! Also more uses for alcohol in cooking recipes, but that has been mentioned often enough.
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Re: Beer is currently inferior to Wine.

Postby Nanothnir » Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:16 am

I make Beer for the High LP Output that it gives. I even took time to work out the maths needed for one barrel...
50Tiles of Wheat, 20 Tiles of Hops, 7 Tables = 1 Barrel Produced. Zero Wastage of Crops due to replant...
Though yes the time needed needs a change, and the use itself. SO I will keep making beer for that is the true drink, but I would like to see it get more use...

So +1 to this idea...
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Re: Beer is currently inferior to Wine.

Postby Potjeh » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:04 pm

Dataslycer wrote:[*]Wine requires one crop as wine uses 1 grape for 1 L. Beer requires two different crops which requires 5 wheat grist and 2 hops for 5 L, the 5:7 ratio which is lower than wine.

Uhm, no. 1 grape gives 0.2l of grape juice, while 1 wheat seed and .4 hops give 1l of wort. Beer gets you more alcohol per tile of crops, but that's about the only thing it has going for it.
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Re: Beer is currently inferior to Wine.

Postby Dataslycer » Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:17 pm

Potjeh wrote:
Dataslycer wrote:[*]Wine requires one crop as wine uses 1 grape for 1 L. Beer requires two different crops which requires 5 wheat grist and 2 hops for 5 L, the 5:7 ratio which is lower than wine.

Uhm, no. 1 grape gives 0.2l of grape juice, while 1 wheat seed and .4 hops give 1l of wort. Beer gets you more alcohol per tile of crops, but that's about the only thing it has going for it.


Removed, thanks.
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Re: Beer is currently inferior to Wine.

Postby sabinati » Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:32 pm

Dataslycer wrote:
  • Beer gives more hunger which is not good as it fills hunger but provides no FEP.
  • Wine needs wine glass which is created from burning sand in a kiln which is easy to access. Beer needs a tankard which is created from tin, which requiring to prospecting a mine, making it less accessible to some players.


these are the only real problems imo
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Re: Beer is currently inferior to Wine.

Postby DatOneGuy » Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:02 am

Revisiting this, a few threads popping up for wine suggestions, how about we get some different kinds of beer? Perhaps a chance to add any other vegetable type as an additive that may increase, decrease, or simply change the beer.

Beer needs a gimmick to be better, or it's pointless to make.

The only reason right now is for outside storage since a cupboard holds 16 buckets (160L) in 1 tile instead of the 100L of a barrel.


Stacking barrels might also give this a slight advantage. :)
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Re: Beer is currently inferior to Wine.

Postby Chakravanti » Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:33 am

burgingham wrote:Very well thought out and a good idea.

THis...
Yes please! Also more uses for alcohol in cooking recipes, but that has been mentioned often enough.

...and this.
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Re: Beer is currently inferior to Wine.

Postby DatOneGuy » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:34 am

Chakravanti wrote:
burgingham wrote:Very well thought out and a good idea.

THis...
Yes please! Also more uses for alcohol in cooking recipes, but that has been mentioned often enough.

...and this.

That's another thing, now wine/vinegar are used in recipes, what about beer!


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