Improve cartography (former "Disable external mapping")

[DatOneGuy]

So how should Cartography be made useful in this case?
Allowing supergrid large maps and giving the prayer some bigger possibilities would be a start IMO...
Secondly allow it some sort of bonus. As it stands the only bonus for mapping is the better looking map and the LP, the LP is barely worth it and the fact that it's not automatic also sucks tentacles.

Let's better forbid the nightvision instead of mapping. Torches and candles will be useful again, and it will look much realistic than it is now.

That should be taken care of as well, but not in that fashion either really. Restricting what you can view based on how dark it is around the object would work fine.

[Melgui]

So how should Cartography be made useful in this case?
Allowing supergrid large maps

Totally agree.

and giving the prayer some bigger possibilities would be a start

I started a thread before about "show cave entrances in maps", that could be one of the possibilities. More mapper tools are badly needed, like books (I know they are planned) and containing stuff, I have all my maps in containers because is the only way to store them, occupying some of my wagon's object slots.

I'm also agree with the nightvision removal, I have a few radical ideas that implies removing things (most of the non-official client features, minimap, etc.) but I don't talk about them because I'm afraid of being assaulted on the street xD

[Chakravanti]

Let's better forbid the nightvision instead of mapping. Torches and candles will be useful again, and it will look much realistic than it is now.

That should be taken care of as well, but not in that fashion either really. Restricting what you can view based on how dark it is around the object would work fine.

FUck you dwarves. Lightmap is a shitty feature. THe only thing that should be done with it is complete removal so that i don't have to turn nightvision on.

[burgingham]

Let's better forbid the nightvision instead of mapping. Torches and candles will be useful again, and it will look much realistic than it is now.

That should be taken care of as well, but not in that fashion either really. Restricting what you can view based on how dark it is around the object would work fine.

FUck you dwarves. Lightmap is a shitty feature. THe only thing that should be done with it is complete removal so that i don't have to turn nightvision on.

#
Or at least give night some use which makes it superior to day, so it FEELS less painful to stumble through the darkness.

[brohammed]

So how should Cartography be made useful in this case?
Allowing supergrid large maps and giving the prayer some bigger possibilities would be a start IMO...
Secondly allow it some sort of bonus. As it stands the only bonus for mapping is the better looking map and the LP, the LP is barely worth it and the fact that it's not automatic also sucks tentacles.

Also, my suggestions

The carrot approach in this case, would be making ingame maps clearly superior to screencapped jpgs; making ingame maps update automatically with villages, other terraforming etc. explain it via hearth magic, make maps require A Beautiful dream or something. Make ingame maps have an extra purpose such as pathfinding. Have them show quality nodes in some way. Allow us to officially name regions and POI's.

Perhaps it should only show quality nodes lower than the quality of the Beautiful Dream used (You can get higher Q dreams from higher q dreamcatchers, right?)

Let's better forbid the nightvision instead of mapping. Torches and candles will be useful again, and it will look much realistic than it is now.

That should be taken care of as well, but not in that fashion either really. Restricting what you can view based on how dark it is around the object would work fine.

Yeah, I'd like this too. Making everything dim = horrible eye strain. Making everything black except for a small circle round the player = better. Torches and candles would be useful again, bump their intensity a bit. Replace "the glow of the cavebulb" with nightvision.

[Lothaudus]

Make it so that the minimap isn't loaded and displayed unless the Character has a map of that area in their inventory (either a regional map or a local map).

It'd mean people would get lost wandering around because they'd have no idea where they are¹. But think of the fun.

Characters would either trade for regional maps so they had them; wander around everywhere noting which river they went up; or start mapping to get their bearings. Hand-drawn maps would see an increase.

¹Which one could argue would be the case if you didn't have a map - I mean, what the hell is the minimap anyway? Some kind of sentient awareness program Hearthlings carry around with them that automaps the area as they go (If so, i want one in the real world)? Why, what's wrong with the main screen and using your eyes and brain to remember where the river you just walked away from was?

[DigDog]

Make it so that the minimap isn't loaded and displayed unless the Character has a map of that area in their inventory (either a regional map or a local map).

It'd mean people would get lost wandering around because they'd have no idea where they are¹. But think of the fun.

Characters would either trade for regional maps so they had them; wander around everywhere noting which river they went up; or start mapping to get their bearings. Hand-drawn maps would see an increase.

¹Which one could argue would be the case if you didn't have a map - I mean, what the hell is the minimap anyway? Some kind of sentient awareness program Hearthlings carry around with them that automaps the area as they go (If so, i want one in the real world)? Why, what's wrong with the main screen and using your eyes and brain to remember where the river you just walked away from was?

Now there's an idea I like really much. But we'd need to have the ability to merge regionmaps into supergridmaps, otherwise we'd run around with half our inventory full of maps.

Or we need a bag for maps. Or a book. Hey, a book sounds good. A world atlas. I know, I know, books have been suggested a hundred times.

[Melgui]

More mapper tools are badly needed, like books (I know they are planned) and containing stuff, I have all my maps in containers because is the only way to store them, occupying some of my wagon's object slots.

I'm also agree with the nightvision removal, I have a few radical ideas that implies removing things (most of the non-official client features, minimap, etc.) but I don't talk about them because I'm afraid of being assaulted on the street xD

As I said before, I agree with Lothardus, what's a minimap? It makes no sense in a matter of realism, and how do you get the mini-map when you haven't got the map?

Collecting the ideas expressed here, we get:

- Minimap only should be displayed if map in inventory (maybe this could help to minimize map-loading lag)
- We need some efficient way to store maps
- Make possible updatable maps via hearth magic
- Make mapping a more rewarding activity
- Possibility of merge regional maps into supergrid maps

[Avu]

What part of improving don't you faggots get? Making other stuff so shitty that you have to take the lesser of two evils is not improving. Fucking masochists when you think you're rid of them they pop back up and there's always some moron there ready to agree. And how they love their realism so called argument.

Improve cartography:
-make it automatic by default no more need of clients that do it in silly ways
-make the map site based linked to each account (only one map needs be generated and stored; individuals just see the parts they are allowed to see)
-allow the placing of markers on the map
-use ink and parchment to copy and merge maps
-optionally allow a prospecting like skill to find out resource spots that get marked on the map automatically when discovered
-make shit actually interesting to travel to, a map to the one and only lost mammoth cave would be more interesting than map of random river 100 that looks the same as the other 99.

And again: IMPROVE!

[Thijssnl]

What part of improving don't you faggots get? Making other stuff so shitty that you have to take the lesser of two evils is not improving. Fucking masochists when you think you're rid of them they pop back up and there's always some moron there ready to agree. And how they love their realism so called argument.

Improve cartography:
-make it automatic by default no more need of clients that do it in silly ways
-make the map site based linked to each account (only one map needs be generated and stored; individuals just see the parts they are allowed to see)
-allow the placing of markers on the map
-use ink and parchment to copy and merge maps
-optionally allow a prospecting like skill to find out resource spots that get marked on the map automatically when discovered
-make shit actually interesting to travel to, a map to the one and only lost mammoth cave would be more interesting than map of random river 100 that looks the same as the other 99.

And again: IMPROVE!

I actually agree with Avu here. Some interesting places to see would be nice. I dont think it will become automatic too soon though.