Glass(obsidian) knife

[Repercussionist]

Modern ceramic knives are in many ways better than steel, but the technology to make them is waaay out of the time period we're talking about here.

So is the technology for metal meat grinders (invented in the 19th century A.D.), but hey, who's counting time-continuum flaws anyway?

By the way, that answer is 217. >.<

Not really. There's a difference between being able to melt and hammer metal into the right shape to create a metal appliance and being able to create high pressure presses which apply a pressure of around 300 tons to make those knives.

Firstly, even the most basic hand-powered grinders were cast, not hammered. Just a point of clearing up the facts.

Secondly, obsidian occurs in its solid form, and a large chunk could be fractured or cut into whatever shape it needed to be for use, just like arrowheads made by the Native Americans (and they didn't have the capabilities to apply 300 tons of pressure). Again, just clearing up facts.

Thirdly, I'm just saying that people always want to date the game into some bronze/iron/steel/rainbow unicorn age when there are obvious outliers to that particular time period. As in another thread, someone suggested clocks, and people wanted to limit it to sundials and such, but knowing that the meat grinder came about in the 19th century and the mechanical clock as we know it came about centuries before that, would break these ludicrous limits people so tightly cling to.
So my response to you directly: Hypothetically, outside of the game, someone could have come along before Karl Drais and invented the meat grinder, but, since you can't accept a truth and not apply it to all relating instances, there's also the possibility that someone could have come along and made steel before it was first created, which could then be applied to any concept with which we have the technology for (more advanced machinery, for example) placing us in an indefinable time period with indefinable technological capacities. If we don't at least follow some real life chronological order, then the game is far off the mark from what I take it was intended to be.

And just for all of you realists out there,
[quote=the About page]set in a fictional world loosely inspired by Slavic and Germanic myth and legend.[/quote]
- Just saying... If I were basing this on realism, I would have quite after day 1, just based on these two things.
We just need our checks and balances, I just hate when people try to discredit perfectly decent ideas based on false-realism, when it obviously should not be so. (Not that I sway in either direction in the case of the OP. :/ I've spent too much time rambling already to develop an opinion for that.)

[Onionfighter]

First of all: stone, including obsidian, is a ceramic. So is glass.

Second, we already have stone axes which you can use for anything I can imagine a stone knife could be used for. Some have suggested knives specifically for skinning, though.

Concerning the time period: Really, there are more important things to think about, like game balance. Probably the biggest factor of whether Jorb and Loftar will add a technology to the game is whether they think it will be cool to add.

[Darkavatar]

Has been suggested before.

But adding Volcanoes, and thus granite, obsidian, magma, and/or pumice as materials to make things would be great.

...we already have stone axes which you can use for anything I can imagine a stone knife could be used for...

Well I think they want a "stone" knife so they can use sting rather than chop/cleave

[sabinati]

knives should use a different attack altogether, if they are even usable as a weapon.

it might be nice if stone quality (and therefore, cutting tool quality) wasn't tied to metal quality, i.e. if people without metal could produce good quality stone axes without needing to find a stone q point on a mountain. i'm not sure of the best way to achieve this, but there has been some talk about bone knives (would need an extra component for balancing, maybe leather?). another solution would be some additional types of stone (although apparently feldspar counts as a stone so i guess you can have a feldspar axe. not sure what quality layer feldspar is on though).

[Repercussionist]

First of all: stone, including obsidian, is a ceramic. So is glass.

First of all, no, not all stone is a ceramic because a ceramic is made by a substance being heated and cooled and not all stone is created this way. Obsidian (being glass formed by cooled magma) is a ceramic, but what does that have to do with being able to grind it? Absolutely nothing, in fact, as has already been stated, it was ground down into blades and arrow heads long ago.

Second, we already have stone axes which you can use for anything I can imagine a stone knife could be used for. Some have suggested knives specifically for skinning, though.

Second, I'm happy with what we have as far as stone axes, and never said or suggested otherwise, don't make unnecessary assumptions and derive false implications.

Concerning the time period: Really, there are more important things to think about, like game balance. Probably the biggest factor of whether Jorb and Loftar will add a technology to the game is whether they think it will be cool to add.

That's exactly the point that I'm trying to make. People are always trying to put Haven into strict time periods that don't necessarily apply, as I pointed out. It's a fictional world at the control of two guys who have complete authority over the content, and as I said before that, the time periods that people TRY to apply to Haven, wouldn't work.

[Onionfighter]

First of all: stone, including obsidian, is a ceramic. So is glass.

First of all, no, not all stone is a ceramic because a ceramic is made by a substance being heated and cooled and not all stone is created this way. Obsidian (being glass formed by cooled magma) is a ceramic, but what does that have to do with being able to grind it? Absolutely nothing, in fact, as has already been stated, it was ground down into blades and arrow heads long ago.

Ok, not all stone is a ceramic, since stone has such a broad definition. The reason I mentioned this is because people were making a distinction between ceramics and glass or obsidian, when glass and obsidian are ceramic. Who mentioned grinding stone?

Second, I'm happy with what we have as far as stone axes, and never said or suggested otherwise, don't make unnecessary assumptions and derive false implications.

What assumptions are you talking about? The creator of this thread stated that we should have knives. I was addressing this.

Well I think they want a "stone" knife so they can use sting rather than chop/cleave

That may be the case, but I would think that sting may be specific to swords instead of knives (Oh, Sabinati already said this). Though it could just be applied the same way if knives have much smaller base damage.

We wouldn't need to actually have volcanoes to have obsidian. Just pretend it formed long ago. Also, if current stones are good enough for axes or arrowheads, they should be good enough for knives anyway. Obsidian isn't the only stone used for edged tools anyway. Flint is another example.

[AnnaC]

Make the obsidian knife have a ceremonial use, like gives a numen boost if it's equipped when you make sacrifices. That would give it something distinct rather than just being a cosmetic alternative for a cutting tool.

Edit: or, knives could make foraging go faster, too.

[Repercussionist]

First of all: stone, including obsidian, is a ceramic. So is glass.

First of all, no, not all stone is a ceramic because a ceramic is made by a substance being heated and cooled and not all stone is created this way. Obsidian (being glass formed by cooled magma) is a ceramic, but what does that have to do with being able to grind it? Absolutely nothing, in fact, as has already been stated, it was ground down into blades and arrow heads long ago.

Ok, not all stone is a ceramic, since stone has such a broad definition. The reason I mentioned this is because people were making a distinction between ceramics and glass or obsidian, when glass and obsidian are ceramic. Who mentioned grinding stone?

I did, and then you made a comment starting with "first of all" which led me to believe that you were addressing my post (see reasoning in previous post). With this knowledge, it would have made your comment completely irrelevant, which really confused me. I couldn't tell if you thought that obsidian, being a ceramic, would be brittle because of a pre-existing concept of ceramic as a "clay pot", or if you were just spewing stuff. You really should have been more clear as to whom you were addressing, as you have done in the post that I'm quoting now.

Second, I'm happy with what we have as far as stone axes, and never said or suggested otherwise, don't make unnecessary assumptions and derive false implications.

What assumptions are you talking about? The creator of this thread stated that we should have knives. I was addressing this.

Again, a clarity issue. As above, you see the reasoning that led me to believe that you were talking about me.

Now we're on the same page. I also apologize if anything in my previous posts came across as unkind. That was not my intent with either of the situations. I just took the situation as it played out, coming to the most logical conclusions as it progressed. I tend to be a bit harsh even when I'm not being critical.

[Onionfighter]

[Zirikana]

Completely irrelevant to the discussion about the OP, but possibly of interest all the same:

"Stone" : Not strictly defined as far as materials classification is concerned (unless you're a geologist ).
"Ceramic" : Any oxide, nitride or similar ionic compound, in essentially any phase, crystalline or not. (more loosely defined: Anything that isn't a metal or a polymer)
"Glass" : Any material (metal, ceramic, polymer, or even composite) that is a non-crystalline solid.

I'm paraphrasing the definitions, they're accurate but by no means "official".

So obsidian would count as all three. Some ceramics are glasses, some are not. Some glasses are ceramics, some are not. (A plastic cup is really a polymer glass, since the chains are mostly randomly oriented, but if you crush it and mangle it, the opaque bits that form are opaque due to chain alignment and crystallite formation, so those areas are no longer "glassy".)

(I have a ph.d. in materials science, in case you doubt my credibility) (and don't call me "doctor" goddammit!)