Making Ancestor Worship a little more accessible

[DatOneGuy]

You can't be for real.

Are the LP payouts carved in stone?

What's the difference between having 100 and 300 in a skill if both are equally hard for everyone to get? I think we need to curb the inflation anyway, numbers on sheet are kinda getting ridiculous anyway.

What matters is their relation to static numbers such as animals.

It becomes more of a 'how long do I need to hunt to efficiently kill bears', how much LP is that? What skill level? With a sling? With a sword?

With a sword it now takes a LOT to 1hko valor strike a bear, probably 400+ base Melee, although I think even more tbh
With a sling it only takes the sling

Einherjaraspekt is p cool and you still do die, but at least you don't completely lose all your work. While it could be said you should I think there is enough in it to say it's not terribly overpowered, unless you have the time to plan to get full trad, kill your dude and then einherjar right before someone attacks or before you're planning a big attack, it's a waste, furthermore if you're attacked after you've now set your character back a little bit, what was worth sacrificing today won't be worth it 2 months from now.

Should it be nerfed? Possibly, but I doubt it.
Should the slider be removed? I see no reason why it should be. What's it do wrong? Prayer is very cool and if anything underused, needs more buffed, the only current reason for it is Einherjaraspekt and the farming prayer, both of which you temporarily go full trad, but that still takes quite some time.

[Potjeh]

So it's the animals' skills that are carved in stone, gotcha.

And I think that you *should* lose all progress. IMO character power should be a product of resource investment, capped by technology level. If it's retained upon death, it means you'll hit the cap again in no time at all and then have nothing to do. Full reset of character means you'll have more things to do before you return to your max power. And getting different discounts on character investment based on a slider is pretty lame anyway, especially when it comes at a high price. Everyone should be at the same combat readiness level if we want balanced combat and more PvP. The only way I can see these discounts working is if you had to spend resources to move sliders instantly rather than go to a cave and AFK for a couple of days.

[Jackard]

id be fine with harsher permadeath if there was less grinding involved

[Potjeh]

Yeah. IMO you should hit the ceiling if you play two hours a day for two months.

[sabinati]

or 8 hours a day for 2 weeks?

[Potjeh]

That's fine too.

Though I'd prefer it if there were diminishing returns for increasing the number of hours you play daily, but I guess there's no way to make it work cause people would just switch characters.

[AnnaC]

Ok I was probably misunderstood, I don't want to make the system easier or harder really, I would just like to see more feedback about Numen and "spiritual" growth of your characters from the game.

I think scaling up the costs and numen generation by the same factor would do this; change characters would gain more numen (as would traditional characters), but each Numen in itself would be devalued to maintain the same balance as it is currently. But this would allow people to always see some sort of numen growth in their numen count, as that's the only feedback the game gives players about their character's ancestors and this aspect of the game.

For the veterans and the type of people who love researching things beforehand, finding out the formulas etc, this isn't an issue because they already have an idea of their character's status in this regard. But I see Ancestor Worship in general being unused by casual players, because there is limited feedback the game gives them about this interesting and unique game concept. And I just think such an interesting aspect of the Hearthlands should be more deserving of attention.

[sabinati]

on thing to consider with devaluing the numen is that it takes increasing quality to gain numen points, where before you would need q40 stuff to get the last point of numen for einherjaspekt it would now require higher q items to sacrifice. this might actually be a good thing.

i would really prefer to see some more useful prayers, like jackard suggested. they don't all necessarily need to be prayers to one's ancestors, though...

[BWithey]

Ultimately, I'd like to see different types of Numen and different methods of worship.

Trad Numen, Change Numen, and different ways of getting them, with different abilities tied to each type.

Of course, I suspect that we'll see a far more complex worship system than that.

Currently the only type of worship is Ancestral Worship, I suspect there are plans to include specific deity worship along with different abilities one can get by worshiping specific deities, and different requirements to gain Numen with each one. It would make sense to me that there would be deities that desire their faithful to be closer to change than Trad, or even to be closer to a specific point on the trad/change scale then dead center.

Some of them may require sacrifices of blood, some of mineral, some of plant, and some that require things from different areas.

If we're asking for a change in Worship, lets go all out shall we?

[DatOneGuy]

1)Don't restrict people who play more often
2)Make people who player smarter get ahead (Currently that is onl the case to a lesser extent)
3)Caps are a terrible idea, period, diminishing returns already solve this quite elegantly, it's just that some things weren't as diminishing, but as you see with Melee/UA, now they are. Marksmen will probably come to be too, but it's the damage that should diminish not the aim, so I wonder how that will work.
4)Just make Tradition be something that is better to have for a long time, some sort of bonus to keeping it longer.

on thing to consider with devaluing the numen is that it takes increasing quality to gain numen points, where before you would need q40 stuff to get the last point of numen for einherjaspekt it would now require higher q items to sacrifice. this might actually be a good thing.

i would really prefer to see some more useful prayers, like jackard suggested. they don't all necessarily need to be prayers to one's ancestors, though...

Lack of prayers is a fucking buzzkill.

Ultimately, I'd like to see different types of Numen and different methods of worship.

Trad Numen, Change Numen, and different ways of getting them, with different abilities tied to each type.

Of course, I suspect that we'll see a far more complex worship system than that.

Currently the only type of worship is Ancestral Worship, I suspect there are plans to include specific deity worship along with different abilities one can get by worshiping specific deities, and different requirements to gain Numen with each one. It would make sense to me that there would be deities that desire their faithful to be closer to change than Trad, or even to be closer to a specific point on the trad/change scale then dead center.

Some of them may require sacrifices of blood, some of mineral, some of plant, and some that require things from different areas.

If we're asking for a change in Worship, lets go all out shall we?

Change Numen? No thanks. Numen is Numen, you gain more with Trad, less with Change, simple enough?

We should indeed start to see more kinds of worship, some basic deities would be a great start man.

Some deities that prefer (not require) youto be closer to change than trad or vice versa is a very neat idea, perhaps a 'change deity' would give more LA boosts temporarily ( 8 hours?)