Marksmanship: the ultimate fix

[ElGato]

So basically combat as a whole should be nerfed to shit?

[Gauteamus]

For example, when you are trying to help your team mates during a fight, your comrades would surround the enemy. Because of this, the system that you proposed would mean that you would shoot your friends instead of the people that you actually want to kill.

Is this necessarily bad? Who would ever fire recklessly into a melee with both friend and foe? if your melee shield is between you and your target, you should probably find another mark, or consider flanking the foe for a clearer shot. I think combat could be very interesting this way (it could also be terribly broken).
I agree that the steady hand of the player playing a large role can be a challenge. Maybe it would work out, or maybe one can find a way to solve it.

No matter what, a suggestion like this is not a small rebalance of archery, it would be a whole new combat system.

Also, it would allow for walls to remove the ability to see beyond them, while still permitting archers to fire past the walls.

I do not understand why this is desirable? From a "reality" standpoint, I can see how walls could block sight, but is it fun gameplay not to see what is going on inside a wall? I want to see if the guy has cattle, dead cattle, cheese racks out etc. Also, why would an archer fire blindly into a walled area? What tiles would count as hidden behind a certain wall segment for a character in a certain tile? Etc.

[NaoWhut]

lets make it so UA is used my left and right
clicking for each fist too =D and to swing
your sword you have to hit a combination of
buttons then right click where you want to
swing your weapon, and with bows lets have
them have a range limit, 5 tiles sling, 10 tiles
bow, 20 tiles ranger bow, oh and you can't loot
bodies anymore, you have to set them on fire
and you only get the items that survive the heat,
also you have to have a warrent to enter houses
and to engage someone you have to be 2 tiles
from them at most

[Gauteamus]

Hehe, Nao, you are right.
Lots of arbitrary ideas of fun has been thrown around in this thread.

Maybe take a step back and try to say something about in which cases Ranged combat should excel, and in which circumstances it should suck compared to Melee?

[Windforce]

Might as well just get rid of Bows and give us Reapeating Crossbows since archer shooting in close combat is like a sniper put into the position of close combat.

They just need to revamp the system for archery, not give it another nerf. Make it so shooting pass walls have penities and giving manuvers based on MM not UA (how do u punch with a bow equiped - give us Bow Bash or something).

[sonerohi]

D1G: I was thinking the same, and actually in the progress of making some mockup images.

You get two ranged attack options, either the LoS shot, which can be pretty accurate, given that you have time to aim, and have a clear line of sight.
But you can also choose to shoot ballistically, where you simply click the attack button, and click any point within shooting range (whatever shooting range may be). A large circle centered on the point you clicked starts to slowly reduce in radius as you aim, but will never shrink beyond a certain radius (maybe increased MM will decrease this aiming limit, but only to a certain degree - a ballistic shot will always be inaccurate. When you are pleased with your aims radius, you release the arrow with another click, and the arrow will hit a random location within the circle. Any char within the circle, whether hit or not, will be alerted that a shot has been fired (you will engage in combat).

The mechanic can be made to work in a number of ways, but I think that, if I approach your walled farm with an army of say 20 semi-skilled archers, you should not safely be going about your daily routine just because the wall is blocking direct Line of Fire.

For the people taking issue with walls.
If the LoS and the arc type were both implemented, that'd be sweet.

[DDDsDD999]

An Idea I had was for Archers, is they should easily reduce Defense, but not give so much damage, so they wouldn't be the one-hit snipers they are today, but still possible to injure someone. It'd would probablly reguire a combination of Melee and archer, or just a group of Archers to be powerful, but it might be an interesting game mechanic for cooperation, and not have you feel so unsafe behind your own walls. With defense being nerfed, People probablly wouldn't feel so safe going out in the middle of battle, but currently archers are like crossbows, reducing melee to shit. Archers are one hit KO Monsters, and can shoot behind walls. Melee takes a while to just hit someone, and behind your own walls, all you have to worry about are archers. In this system, archers would have to be in groups, probablly only 2-3 needed, to kill someone, but archers are far more versatile then Melee people to even require a second thought of Melee.

[DeadlyPencil]

should have asked me before you posted. using a triangle for the path of the arrow makes it so shooting someone point blank will always hit, even if you dont even try to aim before shotting.

i think they should make it so you cant even shoot people in melee with a ranged weapon. and make it easier to switch weapons.

[Jackard]

lets make it so UA is used my left and right
clicking for each fist too =D and to swing
your sword you have to hit a combination of
buttons then right click where you want to
swing your weapon, and with bows lets have
them have a range limit, 5 tiles sling, 10 tiles
bow, 20 tiles ranger bow, oh and you can't loot
bodies anymore, you have to set them on fire
and you only get the items that survive the heat,
also you have to have a warrent to enter houses
and to engage someone you have to be 2 tiles
from them at most :D

All movement should be based off of this: http://www.foddy.net/Athletics.html

[Wolfang]

Might as well just get rid of Bows and give us Reapeating Crossbows since archer shooting in close combat is like a sniper put into the position of close combat.

They just need to revamp the system for archery, not give it another nerf. Make it so shooting pass walls have penities and giving manuvers based on MM not UA (how do u punch with a bow equiped - give us Bow Bash or something).

This is a revamp.

I like this idea, it implements some real life skill as opposed to just click & wait.