Fast Travel, Caravans, and Roads

[sabinati]

yes there are a lot of solutions, so lets just assume that they will happen instead of addressing the issues in the first place

[BWithey]

yes there are a lot of solutions, so lets just assume that they will happen instead of addressing the issues in the first place

If you're talking about them being robbed? Yes.. We all know that's a possibility. The lack of trade? We know that wouldn't happen, except to the ass-end of nowhere. And even then, solutions would be found. (Especially people who like to wander who are now carrying goods to trade).

The main problems I see with this system are social, not mechanical. The communities would have to learn to adapt to the removal of fast travel, and they would do so quickly.

There are so many elements missing in this game as far as trade is concerned. And one of the major ones is the difficulty of transport, there really isn't any with the prevalence of alts, unlimited fast travel to your hearth and/or village (which a couple of canny people using alts can arrange by changing out villages, etc), the dangers of transporting (Thieves and Brigands), and distance.

Combine climates with a lack of fast travel and suddenly it's important to import things from distant lands that you simply cannot grow or produce in your area. Export and trade becomes paramount to a major cities success, as well as protecting not just the city, but the trade routes that are travelled by either independent caravans, or city sponsored ones.

These are elements that are needed to:
* Break easy monopolization of world resources.
* Facilitate *interesting* trade and more varieties of game play.
* Maintain a breadth of world. (it's awfully small right now)
* Create localization of personality, laws, traditions, and economy.

[niltrias]

Anyone else notice that as soon as someone mentions instant travel, the thread goes wildly off-course?

[Jackard]

And the lack of toilets closes the need to go to the toilet. Caravans are trash because they can be plundered so easily and there is no portable claim. Roads fail because it takes months to finish one and it's one of the most repetitive jobs ever. New road building mechanics are needed first. Once we get that we can talk about switching to potjehs idea but complete removal is lunacy.

^

as I've been saying for a while, alternatives should be developed before they remove teleportation

So here's a list of various methods for encouraging mundane travel before you decide to do whatever with teleportation:

• Easier to build milestones with no bounding box
• LP for exploration
• Directional and/or map-based automovement
• Players marking routes on maps, acts like milestones
• Bridges
• Faster clearcutting
• Designations for roadbuilding
• Pack animals (i usually use alts for this but it gets annoying)
• Hidden caches
• Queueing movement with waypoints
• Mounts

i listed mounts last because they are probably more work than all of the rest

I dislike teleportation.

Same here. Convenient but prevents some tricks/playstyles from appearing in game. Its basically a placeholder for better gates, walls, vehicles and mounts.

[BWithey]

So here's a list of various methods for encouraging mundane travel before you decide to do whatever with teleportation:

• Easier to build milestones with no bounding box
• Players marking routes on maps, acts like milestones
  

I like this idea, though I'd like to see a sextant required to mark those routes. (Glass + Bronze)

• Bridges
• Faster clearcutting

Bridges - Of course! Though non-trivial to build.

Faster Clearcutting? So long as it requires a tool.

• Designations for roadbuilding

What do you mean by this exactly? If it means making roadbuilding easier work wise, I can't support it. Road building is about perfect as it is. If you mean adding ways to designate where a road should be built, I can be with that. (Though nothing wrong with Runestones for this)

If neither of these, what do you mean?

[Wolfang]

This would need the implementation of roads which allow people to travel a lot faster then the current roads do.

->horses
->bigger caravans
->running on roads is faster

[Jackard]

What do you mean by this exactly? If it means making roadbuilding easier work wise, I can't support it. Road building is about perfect as it is.

hmm yes well you see the reason this was originally posted on the private forum was to cut through noise like this

and so i wouldnt need to explain basic concepts

[OvShit]

While we`re speaking about transportation...
We all know that the world of H&H is rich on rivers. Heck, it`s easier to spot a river than a bear in H&H. So, there`s an idea - a ship which can be dragged on a wheels while on earth. It has the same amount of slots the wagon has and, depending on number of players, moves on crawl(1), normal(2) or even boat speed(3). While you need to move through earth, you make a bull out of yourself and move a wagon using the wheels. It can be done only if two players are pulling it.
Another idea is a caravan. So, you take a few carts and a few bulls, pack up some goods and begin to travel. There should be kind of tool, which, when used on bulls, make them follow you in chain. This way you can travel somewhat easier because of smaller hitboxes of carts.

[BWithey]

and so i wouldnt need to explain basic concepts

My issue here, Jackard, is that this would make easier a project which should be a hallmark of a strong, well-organized community. I don't know what basic concepts you think you need to explain. Making roads easier effectively reduces a hallmark to producing faster trade over long distances. This should require significant organized work, and be a hallmark of achievement, not be some oversimplified afternoons work.

The world needs to be MUCH larger than it is, travel is too easy as it stands, at least between civilized areas. The point of removing fast travel is to make distances matter. Roads help with that a great deal, but they should not be simple to build.

[Jackard]

you have no idea what im talking about, but that wont stop you from passing judgement on it