Stop the griefing

[krassofnod3]

If you honestly think this game is ever going to be mainstream with permadeath i don't think there's much point in arguing with you. You know why games like wow (or any of the wow clones out there) have made it? Because it's forgiving as all hell. You die? No problem, you're alive again, nothing lost. The game is supposed to be unforgiving and your supposed to be in just as much danger as a noob. It's the way it always has been, and likely the way it always will be. This game will likely never have a massive player base, and i personally am quite ok with that. I'm pretty sure jorb and loftar have likely made their peace with that too, otherwise they would remove permadeath all together.

so lets say someone has some cash put back to invest in indie games because after having been in the AAA business for a long time they actually care about indie games for a variety of reasons..... now I am not talking about a 10 to 50 dollar "donation" investment I mean lets say a 50k-100k investment. Substantial start up capital with the possibility of more depending on how things are going.

if the devs are aiming for mediocrity I am not investing in that game/company. You make one game that flops and that can effect a lot of things in your future. That is unless you are activision but that is a story for another time

this game has a lot going for it, but if what you say is true that the devs don't give a shit....then my "donation/invesment" is going elsewhere because I would rather put my money and time into games and devs that are going places and that have a future not games that are destined for mediocrity.

[Valten21]

Wow... if all those changes were made, I would stop playing the game, or make a critiques & idea's post the exact opposite of yours. There is a core of players that really do enjoy this game for what it is... HnH is like nothing else out there, and all the things you want to change take away from it, all of your suggestions just cater to a more casual play style.. WHY of all the games out there can I not have one I enjoy? Am I supposed to be doomed to play all the other shitty games out there? If you don't like what makes this game, why are you playing it?

Basically, this game is fufills a niche for players much like the one who killed you... and you want to take it away, you want the Dev's to drop there currently supportive players and change the game... You are an ass hole. It would be like someone telling me I should play more mainstream music so I can make it somewhere. I would tell you I'd rather enjoy and be passionate about what I'm doing then give it up to be seen as succsefull in your eyes.... Or.. FUCK YOU.

Wow I thought the original poster made the one above me... fuck you too... You are trying to suggest that permadeath makes the game mediocre?

[AnnaC]

As far as the open PvP I think there should be some special skill that if you're full Peaceful and don't have the Rage skill, allows you to disengage from PvP battle. That would somewhat help the noobrolling that can be done in this game (of course if the noobs knew how to use the skill would be something else entirely).

But the openness of the game is what is so interesting. Every new contact with a stranger is an interesting and anxious encounter; will this person just say hi and go about their business, or do they kill anything that moves on two legs? Can you communicate with them? Would they want to trade or help you out? This uncertainty really helps provide the empty frontier atmosphere the game is in; this truly is a primitive wilderness waiting for you and your friends to make something of it.

The main problem with open PvP as it is, is hearthvaults in general. Players who are pretty much just set on ruining other player's days set up their hearth vault(s) so they are less likely to suffer the consequences of their actions. But that is a small portion of a lot of potential balancing issues in the game (which is an alpha still, remember).

[krassofnod3]

Wow... if all those changes were made, I would stop playing the game, or make a critiques & idea's post the exact opposite of yours. There is a core of players that really do enjoy this game for what it is... HnH is like nothing else out there, and all the things you want to change take away from it, all of your suggestions just cater to a more casual play style.. WHY of all the games out there can I not have one I enjoy? Am I supposed to be doomed to play all the other shitty games out there? If you don't like what makes this game, why are you playing it?

Basically, this game is fufills a niche for players much like the one who killed you... and you want to take it away, you want the Dev's to drop there currently supportive players and change the game... You are an ass hole. It would be like someone telling me I should play more mainstream music so I can make it somewhere. I would tell you I'd rather enjoy and be passionate about what I'm doing then give it up to be seen as succsefull in your eyes.... Or.. FUCK YOU.

Wow I thought the original poster made the one above me... fuck you too... You are trying to suggest that permadeath makes the game mediocre?

since i can see you are of simple mind from all your idiocy. No I don't think removing permadeath is the answer in fact I think permadeath is the next stage of MMO evolution games like wow are on thier way out. WoW is too easy, people are getting bored of it, and its clones, and sick of the planned obsolescence of gear. Now would wow work as a permadeath game no death is far to common in that game no one would llikely get out of the noob area alive.

and since you missed the point of the OPs post entirely...it wasn't about removing permadeath, but you seem to have missed that in all your misguided rage.....

and yes as for trolls and griefers making this a successful game would mean getting rid of people like you who are dragging it down that is what the OP meant by the 50 who leave to be replaced by 50000 dedicated players. Honestly you value yourself far more than you should, 50 players vs 50000 players, I know what I would be shooting for in a game and you.... don't fit the paradigm.

of course i am not speaking for the devs here but maybe you do fit their paradigm. They may be perfectly happy with 500 active trolls in their game and that is fine it is their game and their choice but honestly if it were mine 500 would not be good enough.

It also seems that from all the seriously focused trolling over this thread that this issue has repeatedly come up time and time again. Maybe that is a sign.......

oh and FYI this game does not fill a niche. 1000 players (and that is a generous estimate considering the most I have seen online is close to 500) does not even come close to "fulfilling a niche" that is not even a speck. Eve online (Which consequently is another game that death does have serious drawbacks in) is a game that fulfills a "niche" with its 35k-50k player base. 1000 players in a AAA MMO means server are going to be shut down. Even failled MMOs like final fantasy 14 can still boast 15kto 20k player base.

[Valten21]

I'm going to ignore you telling me I have a simple mind, based on one forum post, it means nothing. Yeah, I'm pretty intolerant to this ridiculous critique after years of playing music and being told I should do other then what I am doing in such a similar fashion. I was indeed mad.

So I read the OP's post again... He suggests that there should be a way for new players to experience the game without the risk of being murdered by higher "leveled" characters, a buffer if you would, to smooth the learning curve, to a point where they can at least fend themselves from high tier players. Let's put aside all the bold accusations, suggesting every top tier player runs around killing noobs, and find fun in this game through griefing (really, a loose term in this game). Let's also ignore the fact he could of searched this topic in the search bar (search before you post, it's mentioned in a absurd number of posts already, and is even on the "READ ME"), and found plenty of good responses to his critique... yes let's ignore that.

For me, I've been killed as a newb starting this game, I've had my belongings pillaged, stolen, and broken... I've been killed by strangers, I've killed strangers, complete noobs, and destroyed there belongings as well...

As a noob, I didn't think too much about it, I didn't have much to lose, and there was always a good reason this ass hole got the better of me. On top of that, it added to the great sense of role play encouraged by this game, my new inherit now had a reason to be, and it was to seek vengeance upon those who had unjustly (or justly) murdered my ancestors! It made every encounter with a person suspensfull, a new experience in an otherwise repetitious world, and this of course carries on for your entire playing experience.

I feel if you read through the Wiki (the HnH manual, if you would) and searched the forums, you can gather enough information for a good start in this game.

That's just a reason i feel those changes shouldn't be made, and there is a handful more if the OP cares to, as I mentioned.. SEARCH the topic.

[Valten21]

And now I've read your first post....

Well.. I don't think you really thought your original response through, you qouted BJClark, and somewhere in your reply mentioned this

- "This game has a lot going for it, but if what you say is true that the devs don't give a shit." (after you mentioned mediocrity)

If you actually did read BJclark's post, he does not mention the dev's "not giving a shit" once, he said this .....

"This game will likely never have a massive player base, and i personally am quite ok with that. I'm pretty sure jorb and loftar have likely made their peace with that too, otherwise they would remove permadeath all together."

Are you implying that the Dev's leaving in permadeath is the same as not giving a shit? If not you should probably try to elaborate on that in your post. You are not providing any critique for me to think otherwise, just informing us you would not invest in a game of as I mentioned... mediocrity.

[xXGhostxX]

Wow... if all those changes were made, I would stop playing the game, or make a critiques & idea's post the exact opposite of yours. There is a core of players that really do enjoy this game for what it is... HnH is like nothing else out there, and all the things you want to change take away from it, all of your suggestions just cater to a more casual play style.. WHY of all the games out there can I not have one I enjoy? Am I supposed to be doomed to play all the other shitty games out there? If you don't like what makes this game, why are you playing it?

Basically, this game is fufills a niche for players much like the one who killed you... and you want to take it away, you want the Dev's to drop there currently supportive players and change the game... You are an ass hole. It would be like someone telling me I should play more mainstream music so I can make it somewhere. I would tell you I'd rather enjoy and be passionate about what I'm doing then give it up to be seen as succsefull in your eyes.... Or.. FUCK YOU.

Wow I thought the original poster made the one above me... fuck you too... You are trying to suggest that permadeath makes the game mediocre?

since i can see you are of simple mind from all your idiocy. No I don't think removing permadeath is the answer in fact I think permadeath is the next stage of MMO evolution games like wow are on thier way out. WoW is too easy, people are getting bored of it, and its clones, and sick of the planned obsolescence of gear. Now would wow work as a permadeath game no death is far to common in that game no one would llikely get out of the noob area alive.

and since you missed the point of the OPs post entirely...it wasn't about removing permadeath, but you seem to have missed that in all your misguided rage.....

and yes as for trolls and griefers making this a successful game would mean getting rid of people like you who are dragging it down that is what the OP meant by the 50 who leave to be replaced by 50000 dedicated players. Honestly you value yourself far more than you should, 50 players vs 50000 players, I know what I would be shooting for in a game and you.... don't fit the paradigm.

of course i am not speaking for the devs here but maybe you do fit their paradigm. They may be perfectly happy with 500 active trolls in their game and that is fine it is their game and their choice but honestly if it were mine 500 would not be good enough.

It also seems that from all the seriously focused trolling over this thread that this issue has repeatedly come up time and time again. Maybe that is a sign.......

oh and FYI this game does not fill a niche. 1000 players (and that is a generous estimate considering the most I have seen online is close to 500) does not even come close to "fulfilling a niche" that is not even a speck. Eve online (Which consequently is another game that death does have serious drawbacks in) is a game that fulfills a "niche" with its 35k-50k player base. 1000 players in a AAA MMO means server are going to be shut down. Even failled MMOs like final fantasy 14 can still boast 15kto 20k player base.

I think its safe to say that you have to go through at least one world to understand how this game operates. Seriously. All these people complaining about open PVP and raiding don't know anything about the games history and how the playerbase acts. This game isnt care bear. If anything we kill care bears because there ideas for seperate servers and no permanent death is so annoying. You don't know anything at all man. Spend at least a world here. Veterans complain less than new comers. And no, as you can see, some proletariat prefer less people and a smaller world. 400-500 is all we need. You rage quitting? We don't care. Keep that in mind .
Also donate as much $ you want, jorbtar will NEVER buy another server. They barely listens to us. Only way he will even talk about this mediocre idea to the table is if the IP even suggests it and that wont happen. 0 discussion. Its DOA on there board.

[krassofnod3]

I'm going to ignore you telling me I have a simple mind, based on one forum post, it means nothing. Yeah, I'm pretty intolerant to this ridiculous critique after years of playing music and being told I should do other then what I am doing in such a similar fashion. I was indeed mad.

having a talent does not mean you comprehend what has been stated in reference to what the OP meant or what I was talking about... oh and on top of that I know a lot of musicians how are "simple minded" but are damn good musicians. Besides all that vulgarity is born of ignorance, there is no need for it to make a point.

So I read the OP's post again... He suggests that there should be a way for new players to experience the game without the risk of being murdered by higher "leveled" characters, a buffer if you would, to smooth the learning curve, to a point where they can at least fend themselves from high tier players. Let's put aside all the bold accusations, suggesting every top tier player runs around killing noobs, and find fun in this game through griefing (really, a loose term in this game). Let's also ignore the fact he could of searched this topic in the search bar (search before you post, it's mentioned in a absurd number of posts already, and is even on the "READ ME"), and found plenty of good responses to his critique... yes let's ignore that.

Which is why I am saying people like you and this seeming resistance to change is what is holding this game back from being truly great. how many players have left because of being handed out a rape hat simply because they are new players? hmm take a guess..... looking at the number of posts about it and in the archives. Probably 4 to 5 times the current player base of the game. 80% player attrition is worse than bad. AAA mmos have a typical 38%-40% attrition as the defining factor for pulling the plug on the game.

For me, I've been killed as a newb starting this game, I've had my belongings pillaged, stolen, and broken... I've been killed by strangers, I've killed strangers, complete noobs, and destroyed there belongings as well...

so in other words your response to being trolled is to troll those who are weaker than you in return .....talk about vicious cycle, yet another sign of ignorance.

As a noob, I didn't think too much about it, I didn't have much to lose, and there was always a good reason this ass hole got the better of me. On top of that, it added to the great sense of role play encouraged by this game, my new inherit now had a reason to be, and it was to seek vengeance upon those who had unjustly (or justly) murdered my ancestors! It made every encounter with a person suspensfull, a new experience in an otherwise repetitious world, and this of course carries on for your entire playing experience.

Which is fine within reason, I don't feel that nub rape is warranted whether the game has permadeath or not.

I feel if you read through the Wiki (the HnH manual, if you would) and searched the forums, you can gather enough information for a good start in this game.

[/quote] I did and found some awesome guides and have a decent defense. I wasn't complaining about my own characters death. I play MMOs to have my friends there with me, and now my friends hate the game because on their first day, IE before they would even have a chance to build those defenses, they got trolled by some random mega player who didn't' even have the testicular fortitude to come after the actually powerful people in the area.

[krassofnod3]

Wow... if all those changes were made, I would stop playing the game, or make a critiques & idea's post the exact opposite of yours. There is a core of players that really do enjoy this game for what it is... HnH is like nothing else out there, and all the things you want to change take away from it, all of your suggestions just cater to a more casual play style.. WHY of all the games out there can I not have one I enjoy? Am I supposed to be doomed to play all the other shitty games out there? If you don't like what makes this game, why are you playing it?

Basically, this game is fufills a niche for players much like the one who killed you... and you want to take it away, you want the Dev's to drop there currently supportive players and change the game... You are an ass hole. It would be like someone telling me I should play more mainstream music so I can make it somewhere. I would tell you I'd rather enjoy and be passionate about what I'm doing then give it up to be seen as succsefull in your eyes.... Or.. FUCK YOU.

Wow I thought the original poster made the one above me... fuck you too... You are trying to suggest that permadeath makes the game mediocre?

since i can see you are of simple mind from all your idiocy. No I don't think removing permadeath is the answer in fact I think permadeath is the next stage of MMO evolution games like wow are on thier way out. WoW is too easy, people are getting bored of it, and its clones, and sick of the planned obsolescence of gear. Now would wow work as a permadeath game no death is far to common in that game no one would llikely get out of the noob area alive.

and since you missed the point of the OPs post entirely...it wasn't about removing permadeath, but you seem to have missed that in all your misguided rage.....

and yes as for trolls and griefers making this a successful game would mean getting rid of people like you who are dragging it down that is what the OP meant by the 50 who leave to be replaced by 50000 dedicated players. Honestly you value yourself far more than you should, 50 players vs 50000 players, I know what I would be shooting for in a game and you.... don't fit the paradigm.

of course i am not speaking for the devs here but maybe you do fit their paradigm. They may be perfectly happy with 500 active trolls in their game and that is fine it is their game and their choice but honestly if it were mine 500 would not be good enough.

It also seems that from all the seriously focused trolling over this thread that this issue has repeatedly come up time and time again. Maybe that is a sign.......

oh and FYI this game does not fill a niche. 1000 players (and that is a generous estimate considering the most I have seen online is close to 500) does not even come close to "fulfilling a niche" that is not even a speck. Eve online (Which consequently is another game that death does have serious drawbacks in) is a game that fulfills a "niche" with its 35k-50k player base. 1000 players in a AAA MMO means server are going to be shut down. Even failled MMOs like final fantasy 14 can still boast 15kto 20k player base.

I think its safe to say that you have to go through at least one world to understand how this game operates. Seriously. All these people complaining about open PVP and raiding don't know anything about the games history and how the playerbase acts. This game isnt care bear. If anything we kill care bears because there ideas for seperate servers and no permanent death is so annoying. You don't know anything at all man. Spend at least a world here. Veterans complain less than new comers. And no, as you can see, some proletariat prefer less people and a smaller world. 400-500 is all we need. You rage quitting? We don't care. Keep that in mind .

Rage quitting? hmm no ofcourse you wouldn't care you are a trolling But if the game devs want a good game and a better player base then they will care about it

[xXGhostxX]

97% of the community agrees with valten and me. If you call them trolls, please get out.