Magic

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: Magic

Postby Jackard » Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:11 am

jorb wrote:There will, apart from hearth magic, be fours schools of magic, each of which is based on one of the four elements of pre-socratic greek philosophy: Earth, wind, fire and water. Each of these will have unique thematic spells, for example, the water school can shoot ice bolts, while the fire school can shoot balls of fire. Furthermore there will be a meter that replenishes over time, containing the fith element, aether, or mana, which represents your magical potency. Every time you cast a spell, you will lose some mana temporarily. There will also be little blue potions, found naturally occurring, and dropped from mobs, that you can drink to restore said mana a bit quicker.

There will be magic, but it will not fall into any of the above mentioned bromidic traps.

man dont even joke about that you almost gave me a heart attack
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Re: Magic

Postby Jackard » Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:14 am

Anyhow, IVAN had the most entertaining magic I've seen in a game. It has a pantheon of gods with different portfolios that your character can worship and offer tribute. You can pray for divine aid and they will either grant some sort of blessing or curse based on their portfolio and opinion of your behavior. Pester them too often, and they would smite you for your impudence.

Magic was wild and unpredictable. Even with your gods favor, their blessing could be unpredictable.
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Re: Magic

Postby Neyvn » Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:35 am

Wasn't there a god that if you did something cool in the game, such as kill something with something unpredictable. He would grant you epic stuff, but if you did too much things in the mundane way, kill 100 rats with the same dagger, he would step in and make it cool himself, with interesting results...

I haven't played IVAN for a long time, so I might be mixing it up with another game...


That would be cool to have in HnH anyway...
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Re: Magic

Postby sabinati » Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:55 am

Jackard wrote:Anyhow, IVAN had the most entertaining magic I've seen in a game. It has a pantheon of gods with different portfolios that your character can worship and offer tribute. You can pray for divine aid and they will either grant some sort of blessing or curse based on their portfolio and opinion of your behavior. Pester them too often, and they would smite you for your impudence.

Magic was wild and unpredictable. Even with your gods favor, their blessing could be unpredictable.

that sounds interesting. more things should be unpredictable, or at least difficult to predict.
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Re: Magic

Postby Jackard » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:47 am

my arm turned into a banana once
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Re: Magic

Postby sabinati » Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:13 am

maybe not... that unpredictable
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Re: Magic

Postby Devour » Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:08 pm

sabinati wrote:maybe not... that unpredictable


In Ivan, you could eat your own body parts.

They were delicious.
Image
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Re: Magic

Postby Peter » Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:34 pm

You people need to read Discworld. Good Ol' Pratchett somehow took D&D-style magic (or something vaguely similar, it's hard to tell, sometimes... and that's just the Unseen University, there's whole other kinds of magic out there.) and make it bewildering, terrifying, hilarious, and awesome. One of the big things he did was to take and work with magic like it was nuclear and quantum physics- to keep tomes full of the most powerful spells safe and locked away, they are chained in rooms lined with lead penta-, no, Octagrams. Wizards still sling fireballs around on occasion, but there's always the chance that things go wrong, and trying to levitate something without applying a similar force elsewhere must be done carefully lest the counter-force by applied directly to the brain.

However, it's not exactly suited to the H&H universe, but it's a good place to look to to see how it's done.

I for one kinda like the "undocumented features" approach to processes in this game. Take fishing or cheesemaking, for instance. Sure, people experimented with fishing and such to determine what makes what, and while this IS fun, it only lasts for about a week. And while I admire it and think it might be fun, I always end up looking it up on the wiki because I don't want to wast resources on experimenting.

What I would suggest is either don't make guesswork games or go the whole way- and this can be a part of balancing. What I mean is, find a way to make magic permanently unpredictable; requirements for spells (or rituals, even if the aren't "fireball" spells) always change and ingredients for some potions (or other mystical craftings) differ from night to night, never being guaranteed to work. Imagine this:

Some players choose to use proven statistics and equipment. It's obvious how to make a steel sword, and if you don't know, you can look it up. These players don't use magic because it's unpredictable and unreliable.

Others focus solely on magic for the potential returns- even if several experiments fail, one successful attempt will give them a soul-forged sword or what have you. They don't use regular tools because they need all the resources they have to continue experimenting.

Most players, of course, would occasionally experiment, or will buy finished magic tools on occasion, but would largely use proven crafting tools for most things. They might experiment with making a new item, especially if they hear about how someone else made it, but only if they have extra resources.
Surprise.
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Re: Magic

Postby Jackard » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:24 am

Peter wrote:You people need to read Discworld.

how presumptuous
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