Bots

[jtpitner]

hey guys thanks for the replies... Very Helpful I am one of those legit players and this world when it came to trade at first I was Ok with the thread then everthing just jumped in one night to stuff I just compete with.....I non stopped played for months...I found this discouraging but its w/e I love the game so ya.... Still playing from time to time... Also if I can get some of my friends back on...
Thanks again

[Pan_w_okularach]

I know a simple solution if admins will watch how many curiosities people find they can see people that suspect using bots and we can delete them from game for example if you play much then you can find 3-4 flotsams if more - that means a bot

[McJager]

That's an awful idea... what about the people that play this game 12+ a day? I'm unsure if those still exist but if they do they're bots in your eyes.

[TeckXKnight]

I know a simple solution :) if admins will watch how many curiosities people find they can see people that suspect using bots :) and we can delete them from game :) for example if you play much then you can find 3-4 flotsams if more - that means a bot :)

That would require a few things that end up invalidating it:
1) It would follow a set formula of time per curiosity farmed. Bots can easily just idle some time to offset this, similar to how people play for a period of time and then stop. Work can also be split between multiple bots to reduce time needed to achieve the same work load. In the end you're still left with bots who are producing as much as the most dedicated no-lifer.
2) This would require a growing number of manhours put into monitoring and investigating. At its peak, before bots, Haven hit around 2,500 users online at once. That means approximately 25,000 active accounts were playing consistently. If even a fraction of these users were no-lifers, as in users who optimize play and play for ridiculous amounts of time, they will be setting off red flags constantly. It's not like an account can't just switch between being a player and a bot either, so it'd be necessary to investigate every instance. Lets say that an instance involves a little bit of observation and the administration of a quick test that amounts to 2 minutes of time spent. So every 30 red flags or bots that go up eat up an hour of time. Immediately after being banned a bot can just cycle into a new IP or proxy as necessary and be back up and running again shortly. A player that is wrongfully banned will have to try to contest this or just simply quit.

Manually tackling an automated problem is a bad idea.

[Pan_w_okularach]

I agree it is not perfect but better then now

[Karede]

Casual gamers playing 5 hours a week...

Those exist? Also, I happen to be a fan of doing repetitive tasks such as gathering thousands of clay, Building walls, Mansions, Etc.

Agreed, it's not fun in and of itself but the satisfaction of having built up a massive bwall manually is worth it

[ChainedDjinn]

I kinda wrote something on this idea, I think maybe it belongs here.
Maybe a different look is in order.
Today, as it seems years prior, their are still bots. I also foresee that as long as the game has any sort of grinding feature their are going to be bots.
Instead of punishing these players, why not use them as a resource tool?

Ok, I'm going to go slightly off topic. Anyone ever considered the use of NPC's? Not a whole lot like civilization or that nature, just something that would make building a village worth more then just to trade. The amount of people for your village would be in relation to say, this kind of equation?

sqrt(Cha*3/7)

And not all npc's would even want to join your town, only those that share interests with your own or would at the very least not dislike you. Likewise, if interests change they will leave. This would just about completely remove the need for botting by making a version of it easily accessible for everyone. Likewise gives more purpose to an almost otherwise ignored stat except those who uses party combat abilities.
The Npc's would run in place of bots taking care of things either they deem necessary or by the player by using 'idol commands' or such, which would separate the camera from the player but only allow it to venture through the village claim. The player then dictates what they want done, be it logging, leveling land or clearing away underbrush and the denizens follow up when they can spare time.(Kinda like Dwarf fortress but less, stumpy.)
I believe this would give Haven a fresher look, actually inhabited villages in full swing instead of empty. Granted these would be NPC's but none the less SOMEONE created the town they all prosper. Newbies venturing to such places would see a place that actually looks alive, they might barter with the locals for things they want or need and could possibly wish to join the village themselves.
Another mechanic would be with more townspeople praying at shrines also comes more 'Essence' for the village leader to use. This 'Magic currency' would be useful for casting spells that would protect the village. (Growing a thicket around BW's, calling lighting to damage attackers?) This would give villages a little more power in defending their land, but not making them 100% invulnerable.

Now these abilities should never be used outside of the village except maybe by like, dark mages or something like that. Which simply adds another facet to the battle mechanics. The power though also comes from the people, their basically giving you a bit of their own life energy.(Dependent on beliefs) Casting simple spells like generating thickets or swamps would be cheep, calling lighting would cost more but only causes a portion of damage in an area.(More people raiding at once would get more damage because more targets, one or a few enemies at a time would be more tactical.)
Another counter-balance is if the npcs feel abused; Being forced to work with no down time, too many high level spells draining them, them getting hurt more often then protected, ect. Would be them becoming unhappy, which anyone who's gotten more then a year into Dwarf fortress knows could be used for very f-u-n things.

On a more positive note; the Npc's could cover area's the player isn't comfortable with, like mining if you find a good place or boiling leather or tending crops. Instead of thinking of npc's as a bad component, think of them as an extension of the player who founds the town. People use bots because they cannot trust others, all the things needed to be done can seem insurmountable.
Though this environment normally stems or encourages a bipartisan cooperative thought process, not everyone can open themselves to attack. Like how some artists get offended if you dislike their work, or how some religions slander other people for not believing in what they do. It's a deep seeded reaction that goes back to our roots, and terroristic masterminds play on them like the strings of a harp.
Keep people divided and they are easily conquered.

Now I at this point, my guess is your figuring people will just make a town and then leave it. Well, then let's address that before it becomes an issue. While the town runs on it's own, it's people will slowly begin to lose faith in their founder if he hardly seems to be around. Thus after a certain point, people will begin to leave. As authority drops so does the likelihood of people staying. Now it narrows the problem to keeping someone from just botting the founder, easier said then done I know... but at least it's an idea.

If not npc's, how about other characters on the individuals own account? Each could be geared a particular way, then an option selected to keep them in game doing a task. The obvious down side to this is that if they are attacked then they might be lost, which would be a reason to make a 'Guard' character and keep them fitted with the latest gear to keep your home protected.

Either or both ideas seem plausible to me, but I'm sure others will disagree. I wouldn't mind debating the issue though, the more ideas that are hashed out the closer we come to an ideal solution. But these are just my thought.

I know a simple solution if admins will watch how many curiosities people find they can see people that suspect using bots and we can delete them from game for example if you play much then you can find 3-4 flotsams if more - that means a bot

OK, I regard myself as a rather open minded guy, but this actually offends me. In my own experience I have had 3 trips on the water that I found 5-8 flotsam and that's mostly counting those of trade value, spitting on other peoples luck is just insensitive in my opinion.

Sorry if my TL;DR comment was unwelcome, I'd rather it be on here though then just sitting on my computer. Sadly, I have no real way of actually dealing with bots, but in my defense I feel having people contributing codes to how they think the NPC's should act, would save a lot of the dev's time and energy leading to more content. That's why I have a habit of turning toward modifiable games, sadly a majority of mods equals a crap ton of cheat material.
I like the stuff that makes a game challenging, otherwise your just playing with a toy.

Well, I think I've built this wall high enough to keep the raiders out! But realistically, I do agree that life is too short to waste on a crap-ton of uninspiring tasks. In a lot of the old good games, when the hero progressed to a certain point, he'd typically get rewarded with some way of preforming an old task easier as he's already experienced that part of the game and out-grown it. Some of use grew up on this function that after a while we should be rewarded for our efforts, even if it's making something that used to be hard easy.
Just more of my thoughts on the subject, the choice to listen to them is your own.
Till next time

[borka]

but in my defense I feel having people contributing codes to how they think the NPC's should act, would save a lot of the dev's time and energy leading to more content

you might consider that Loftar and jorb do not want "external" code

[ChainedDjinn]

but in my defense I feel having people contributing codes to how they think the NPC's should act, would save a lot of the dev's time and energy leading to more content

you might consider that Loftar and jorb do not want "external" code

Well, they why not have them give examples that can just be shifted into another syntax? They'd just need something as a translator to act as a medium for the players while their core code stays protected. Not to mention submitted code would have to of course have to be implemented by a dev, I'm not meaning an instantaneous plug in because that makes far too many security risks. Just something for them to look at and think in another perspective.

[prespic]

The bots never are welcomed , and if developers give up on this, then be other things that will come later. About add npc to your town to make the hard work and boring , feel like a little cheating. Only Npc i wish saw its a npc town that can raid.

If need make a boring thing try to hire a newbie to do the job .