Exp modifier tickets for cash

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: Exp modifier tickets for cash

Postby biohazard » Wed May 06, 2015 2:14 pm

Ah yes, let's go with the absolute worst revenue model for a game first. Excellent idea.


The whole point is that if a game is successful there will be cash trading hands in RL some games allow this and profit and some prohibits it and let 3rd parties profit off the black market. My previous examples were EvE and Tibia, Diablo 3 used it but closed for some unknown reason, also theres Entropia Universe that allow ppl to profit real money off the game, ofc the more ya invest initially the easier ya can cash up later. But my point is true ppl will ever buy pixel legally or not.

So the core of the idea is that new players can pay cash to get an lp advantage to catch up with older players. On the flipside, you're hoping that even if older players buy them they won't see the same investment since input is exponential (which doesn't mean doubles). The cash items can be traded, stolen on kill, etc.


Not so sure if ya caught my example well, i just meant that older players invested more time than most so their stuff are well enough that ppl would trade their tickets for it. So even if ppl are not willing to buy tickets with RL cash the kind of time they put in game are enough to compete even with rich ppl that shortcut their way through. Btw doubles can mean exponential just by opposite of linearity, and that was just a example of how hard it might be to acquire some small bonuses, and that hardness might gets higher the more ya go up on quality. If ima not mistaken Tibia uses a very simple idea, more or less ya need double the previous required exp to achieve the next level, but every level only gives a constant bonus like 5 mana/hp per level something like that.

The point is that even if some1 stock loads of LP on a given skill the resulting item shouldnt offer much a difference cuz the requirement itself doubles or whatever the devs think wise.

Immediately I take issue with anything that turns new players into walking pinatas. Beat them until their cash falls out. New players have big enough targets drawn on them as is and the goal should be to decrease the incentive to murder them, not increase it.


First, i dont think any1 would be stupif enough to provide the community with their own modifiers information, also the dichotomy of new or older players is misinterpreted , i just gave a example of how it would be balanced in the end. Anyway i think that as ppl goes on stocking tickets on their account either by the means of Rl cash or trading for their goodies wont make much a edge on who ya wanna target. Ya thinking of the current state of the game with only 200 ppl or so, i think the devs would like it to be commercially available a be able to make a living off it also to attract many players. Its good the game took like 7 years? and will take more to balance the new version, but how can ya balance the game with such low population, perhaps what works for 200 ppl wont for 2000.

You're also operating under the assumption that new players will be the only ones buying and taking advantage of these benefits to catch up. More realistically, everyone will buy them at the start of the world as per status quo to "get ahead" of everyone else. After that players will maintain buying them to "stay ahead." So now there's a tax on playing and no gap was really closed for anyone.


Ya wrong on my assumptions, but not every1 will buy exp modifiers tickets or some ppl will buy a lot more than some and some ppl will just wanna enjoy the game on other ways. But well thats the ultimate goal, like Tibia after ya have a high level char ya make so much money on your hunts that theres no point in stocking it but buying many Premmium Scrolls, which helps new players finance their hunts early on and ppl that go rough and wont buy Premmy Scrolls to trade in-game for hunt supplies play as well, but perhaps most are not as efficient as some or have to put a deal more logistics or more time/effort, but they can compete well and in the end as the levels goes by even them will trade their gold for premmy with the newbies.

I missed that part at first. God no. Absolutely not. If your goal was to disincentivize botting, alts, etc. then this is a huge step in the wrong direction as you'd be able to feed your main lp. Alternatively, you could feed alts just enough to buy the necessary criminal skills to go vandalize or murder things for you so that you never have to put yourself at risk. Not that you already can't force-feed alts the necessary lp and stats to go commit crimes for you, but the systems in-place that allow this aren't going to survive to the next iteration of the game (See: hunger grinding, no hearth secrets) so we'll see how that goes.


Well in this i think ya are wrong, theres no point in wasting LP on alts since they cant compete in the end, they go murder things ya but they just go and wont be coming back to tell the tale since best invested main players will be there to stop the shit up. Whats good to put very miserable armor/weps and some LP on a alt just to vandalize shit and whats good to put nice armor/weps on alts if ya gonna lose it, assuming ya would ofc ppl would do that already, theres loads of ppl stocking LP on alts by the means of curios and put on land claims, but theyy could do as ya stated go vandalize, but if the current state there might be very lil difference between alt vandalizers and main warrior with exp modifiers tickets its like heaven and hell, the gape would be jsut to big to overcome by transfering some LP to alts. And btw the devs could just prohibit using multi-acc to begin with.
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Re: Exp modifier tickets for cash

Postby borka » Wed May 06, 2015 3:09 pm

Why do i read Blizzard when looking at his nick ?!? :? :o :shock:
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Re: Exp modifier tickets for cash

Postby Mernil » Wed May 06, 2015 3:16 pm

biohazard wrote:Also, gathered exp (learning points) could be traded as currency for other players shit. With that i believe ppl would have no incentive to create alts and use bots since all your tickets are best invested in one char alone for optimal overall LP income, even putting loads of curios on alts would be pointless.


Thing is, having a constant supply of curios is not a real problem.
So feeding your curios to 10 alts isn't a problem neither.

Then producing whatever quantity of LP is less complicated with 10 bots, than with 1.

And with LPs you buy tickets? Man there will be bots everywhere.
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Re: Exp modifier tickets for cash

Postby biohazard » Wed May 06, 2015 4:04 pm

With your LP ya buy tickets off PLAYERS, and with tickets modifying ever high the LP outcome makes no sense to put curios on bots cuz they will generate ever less LP than main char, so ya may think: okay i got my main curious enough to provide my non-ticketiers alts with curious so perhaps they can generate some lil lp that in the end i will be able to buy something with that. Thats how i understand your concern. But, think, the abundance of curious that would go to waste on alts due to no modifiers can be traded FOR SURE for better LP than those provided on alts, cuz ticktiers will buy it. And theres inflation too, perhaps 1usd ticket may cost lets say 1mil LP at the start, but after some months ppl are generating so much LP they can pay more, lets say 10mil LP, and so ppl will never think on wasting items that could be traded for LP ever higher, so ppl that start later and are of a mind to sell some tickets to kick off some skills instantly can compete with every1.

Maybe ppl will use bots to automatic tasking like moving shit around or anything that skills doesnt apply, but no way to generate LP or generate QUALITY goodies, cuz for that ya need main char with high skills which comes from investing tickets on it and only on it, using your own money or your own time/effort
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Re: Exp modifier tickets for cash

Postby jtpitner » Wed May 06, 2015 4:10 pm

Mernil wrote:
biohazard wrote:Also, gathered exp (learning points) could be traded as currency for other players shit. With that i believe ppl would have no incentive to create alts and use bots since all your tickets are best invested in one char alone for optimal overall LP income, even putting loads of curios on alts would be pointless.


Thing is, having a constant supply of curios is not a real problem.
So feeding your curios to 10 alts isn't a problem neither.

Then producing whatever quantity of LP is less complicated with 10 bots, than with 1.

And with LPs you buy tickets? Man there will be bots everywhere.


again alts will be harder to create in hafen as well as using bots should be as well since no one has even seen the game yet it should take a while... Death to bots....
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Re: Exp modifier tickets for cash

Postby Mernil » Wed May 06, 2015 4:14 pm

I understand what you say, but what, with your system, prevents me from making 200 bots, have them harvest their field and their chicken coop, craft farming curios (seer's tea-leaves, seer's bones, wheat doll, complicated node, ...), study them, and auto-train farming.

Sure it's shit Q, so they won't go up quickly...
Though at some point I'll have 200 characters that'll be able to sell LPs to my main for nothing.

to jtpitner :
alts won't be harder to create in hafen, they will be harder to gather together.
with the system where I can sell LPs to players, why would I care that they live together? Just have 1 script to manage a farm, and run it on every one, sell LPs to main, and that's it.
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Re: Exp modifier tickets for cash

Postby jtpitner » Wed May 06, 2015 4:18 pm

I thought i read something where you wont just be able to have alts on same account you will have to create like a baby or something not sure.....Btw bots destroy the game for non botters we can't compete after the beginning of the world. But ya ill go off now and try to find where its at about the alts...
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Re: Exp modifier tickets for cash

Postby biohazard » Wed May 06, 2015 4:48 pm

I understand what you say, but what, with your system, prevents me from making 200 bots, have them harvest their field and their chicken coop, craft farming curios (seer's tea-leaves, seer's bones, wheat doll, complicated node, ...), study them, and auto-train farming.

Sure it's shit Q, so they won't go up quickly...
Though at some point I'll have 200 characters that'll be able to sell LPs to my main for nothing.

to jtpitner :
alts won't be harder to create in hafen, they will be harder to gather together.
with the system where I can sell LPs to players, why would I care that they live together? Just have 1 script to manage a farm, and run it on every one, sell LPs to main, and that's it.


Ima talking about a comercial system for a FINISHED game, dont really think its health to allow ppl to use bots or scripts or alts or multiclient. Btw the issues ya point is mud in what HnH could be: bright and shinny. Theres always a way to exploit anything, its just others job to prevent ya from doing it with their own tools.

The why i think HnH in the end is to use some commercial system similar to the one i point is to prevent 3rd parties black market; also to create an environment where its non brainer to have only one char and play with that one as much as possible; also to have a ever growing world land-wise and that cost alot in server and stuff.

I also think its to the best to live together since its much coast-effective than solo players; sure some1 can comfortably play solo specially if he puts some tickets on the acc, much as same nowadays. But the real goodies comes from high specialized skills and a chain of production as much as Adam Smith points out on his pin factor allegory. LP wise is much better too, cuz solo player goodies wont sell quite well for the abundance of high Q competition. Also safety is a issue. I myself prefer solo btw, probs some high Explorer looking for wild curios to self use and trade for food, but thats me.
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Re: Exp modifier tickets for cash

Postby Patchouli_Knowledge » Wed May 06, 2015 5:09 pm

Here jorb makes his stance clear on how he feels about RMT. Also for quite a long time, the devs also made Haven as a hobby, not as a mean of income. The mean of helping them financially is the donate button and people has been pretty generous with it.

Newbies in general are already enough of a target as it is with the potential loot raiders can gain without adding real life currency as part of the loot. Even if they do not pbulically announce that they have modifiers, the possibility of the chance that it is potentially part of the loot pool will encourage this behavior even further. Plus, there is the nasty logic that raiders are now stealing the newbie's real life money now.

You are also forgetting that no matter how much xp modifier you have, you need proper experience and mental resilience in dealing with a fight that will kill off your character permanently which will cause panic to most players when forced onto them for the first time. Having 300% xp rate won't help you if you sudden panic when a pair of griefers decided to forego the "stand and deliver" and just kill you for xp and money.

And there is one thing you forgot to account for in terms of bots. RMT gold farmers. They will farm LP AND player's xp modifier to sell to others illegally including those they kill from other players. Not to mention, you will have the server littered with advertising bots spamming links to their RMT website which is very easy to create and the risk of actually killing them is quite great in comparison.

And btw the devs could just prohibit using multi-acc to begin with.


Many games have tried to enforce this, the success rate is pretty low.
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Re: Exp modifier tickets for cash

Postby biohazard » Wed May 06, 2015 5:31 pm

so ya are saying their attempt on Salem were out of their good hearties?

The part of ticketiers hunt is completely bullshit out a LCD dream. Ppl till kill any1 thats just not their friends and ticketiers would not be weaklings for sure
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