Dead bodies, Backpacks, Forest Types, Heath Fire Protection

[ImpalerWrG]

Dwarf Fortress makes this game look easy. Mind if I ask what games you developed or are developing?

I generally agree with you that most of the things you brought up are 'newbie traps' and a combination of some unintuitive interface, mechanics and lack of documentation make some of the most basic things too hard to do. For example those rabbits are caught by first getting Hunting then walking right up to them and then (Are you sitting down?) Double clicking them! This makes you pick up the rabbit (so long as you have an empty 2x2 space in your inventory) at which point you can click to break its neck and skin it. I suspect 90+% of new players were unable to do that without help, myself among them.

In general most indie game developers just put their game out their and rely too much on their fan base to write documentation (usually a wiki) for them, it's kind of the downside of the really profound changes wikis have brought to the internet, it makes people even more reluctant to do proper documentation. Ideally a game shouldn't need "any" documentation, even a tutorial, the information one needs and how to execute your desired actions should be obvious within the context of the game without having to read anything that could be considered a document or be 'told' through a tutorial.

All that aside I do really admire the rapidness and boldness that the developers show in their iteration cycle, it is indeed just about weekly. I think they go directly from a brainstorming session into programming and then push the content to the server, bugs and patches get addressed in a day or two if theirs an issue. That kind of iteration is the only way to make a good game.

[Peter]

You right-click on the rabbits. Still, yeah, the system is borked on a fundamental level.

[Orteil]

Jorb and Loftar are nice enough to put on the forum most of the item recipes and combinations when they're implemented; I know some games that let the playerbase do the guessing and spading themselves, sometimes on unbelievably complex recipes and puzzles, with very few clues.
I think that when you're stuck, looking outside the game for help is justified and could often be considered a part of the gaming experience itself.
You come here and rant about how you're stuck -- on the Critiques forum; that's nice, but did you see the "How do I" section ? I believe that's where you're supposed to get help.
Also simply googling "haven and hearth help" yields the website, then these forums, and -oh boy !- the wiki. It's not like it's a hidden secret place.
I believe this is the kind of game, along with Dwarf Fortress, where some players are "too dumb to live" or just "not involved enough to live" (I don't mean to be offensive, of course). If you can't take the initiative to look around for pointers, then maybe this game simply isn't for you.
You posted here and got answers though, so yeah, I guess that works too.

[Flame]

HOW many games do you know that you need to Go on a randomic Forum, in a randomic topic to read a guide create by a Randomic PLAYER, before start to play??
How many?
C'mon men, seriously is really true that This game don't have any guide in game. Any training, any help for a new player. I'm not talking about a way to survive. Devs added some stuff to garant the life of newby. But Newby don't know how use them!! Because IN THE GAME ther's no written in any where.

Now, when i Buy a game i can read the guide. Ok. Where is the guide of online games? IN THE SITE.
Not in the forum, usually used to ASK randomic questions.

This game need a section on the site, called "GUIDE FOR THE GAME", and not that little guide out of date, neither the Wikipedia. It's highly stupid that a player needs to search on Google a guide for a game, and if he don't do this he simply DIES. In other games (also free) the player may be stupid, lazy, or pro. The pro go in the net to read more, to discover all the hints and the cheats. The normal or lazy one, simply plays. Usually a normal player can survive in the game because the game itself tells him "Hi, this is a fisher pole. You need some strings. What are strings? Roots, fibres...(...)"

The basics to start, Knowing what the hell are you doing.

Isn't fault of the player. Lazy, or not lazy.. Stupid or not stupid.

This game is a Program. Isn't a game. Is simply a Program where you'r throwed in and you start to..to..dunno, to DO THINGS RANDOMLY.

Is it normal? Nope. Is an Alpha, ok. So let's forgive devs, but if a player say "Man, a guide?" he isn't wrong.
This Game Need An Official Guide, In The Official Site.
So, when you'r going to download the game, you'll see the section in the site "Guide"

Devs are too lazy to do that? There's a whole section in the forum. So, It's so hard to create a section also in the site, that simply paste the stuff that was already written in the forum??

Oufh. I'm sick of this nonsense. A game needs its own official guide, in its official site.
Don't the devs have time?
This doesn't remove that this game needs a guide in the right section.

[vstein]

I can see that if your in a room that has no doors, no windows, no trapdoors, no exists, and are told to exit the room, it can be very frustrating, and the average user will quit within 5 minutes.

I think I've played that game... It was pretty awesome

I loved Portal!

[Chakravanti]

Dwarf Fortress makes this game look easy. Mind if I ask what games you developed or are developing?

Oh fucking shit. Another B12 masochist ~.^

[Lothaudus]

As a Game, I think this starts ok, except,.. how do I survive once my bread is gone? I understand its still Alpha, and we have to suffer a few dead characters (Dwarf Fortress anyone?) to understand how to get going. So how about making that opening bit, just a tad easier?

I don't think the opening bit "needs to be easier", I just think the opening bit requires you to know what you're doing a little bit more than most games. Which is a good and a bad thing. IE: RTFM (which is these forums and the wiki).

Most of what you raised already happens or exists easily enough for n00bs as sabinati pointed out.

what if we use our dream for a heath fire? how do we get another?

To be blunt, this is faggotry right here. What do you want to happen? New Hearthfires to float down out of nowhere every-time you use one? Getting another of anything you have at the start is remarkably simple once you know how.

The key is in the "knowing how" part, not in the "lets add backpacks and apple trees everywhere and other faggotry so morons who can't figure anything out have an easier time". I'd wager such morons would still have difficulty even if they were given a second chance at various items or unlimited starting food.

A simple in-game tutorial that pops up would resolve all of your issues. And while HUNGER NEEDS TO BE RE-BALANCED YOU GODDAMNED DEVFAGS so you don't eat half the forest every fifteen minutes, it's still quite possible to survive.

but also it helps the community as a whole, more accessable game = more players = better future.

Actually, more players just seem to keep on coming despite several complaints about the game being too hard and the handful of QUITRAGERS that seem to pop-up every once in a while.

There are 286 players online right now. Back when I joined a handful of months ago, there was typically around 60. If the game kept growing at its current rate, we'd see 500+, closing in on 1000+ before years' end.

also players don;t NEED to get "the Will to Power" which leads to skills for theft etc, so the likely hood of griefers will be lower (also you could increase the LP cost for this skill, further reducing the griefer count,

Getting LP isn't difficult for the people who'll be griefing you and the worst griefing (say, walling you in) often doesn't require the expensive "black arts". So this really wouldn't change anything.

I want to make clear, I didn't want to ask that the Dev's make a game guide, far from it

True. Instead, you seem to be asking they change a number of the starting mechanics, none of which would actually solve any of your issues (you still wouldn't know "how to do stuff").

So I decided to visit the forums to find answers, and still haven't.

viewtopic.php?p=64594#p64594
viewforum.php?f=2
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3196
http://havenandhearth.wikia.com/wiki/

Is there anything else you haven't found in the forums yet?

In response to the concept of naturally dead rabbits, sure, that would be great.. IF it happened often enough that I could have found one by now.. for some reason I cannot punch a rabbit to death, even though its sitting still, and even then, surely skinning is a skill, how many people do you know that can actually skin a rabbit.

http://havenandhearth.wikia.com/wiki/Ra ... reature%29

I like that the Lean-to is a 'safe spot' If I knew already

http://havenandhearth.wikia.com/wiki/Leanto

If I could build one easily, I would have done so already, but without having the time to go check, memory serves its not so easy if you have the wrong tree's nearby.

True. Then again, is any of the shit you have right now so valuable you absolutely need to store it and wouldn't be able to replace it quickly? I know at the start, people seem to have this mindset of "OH GOD I MUST SAVE ALL THESE BRANCHES, OH NO I CAN ONLY STICK 6 IN A BASKET WHAT DO I DO" but the stuff you have on you right now is so easily replaced it's laughable.

I've put word in about this game to a few of the guys in our labs

Tell them to read the Wiki. Start here: http://havenandhearth.wikia.com/wiki/Getting_Started

Then try this one: http://havenandhearth.wikia.com/wiki/Fishing

Have fun.

[ImpalerWrG]

Dwarf Fortress makes this game look easy. Mind if I ask what games you developed or are developing?

Oh fucking shit. Another B12 masochist ~.^

Actually quite the opposite, I stopped playing that horrible abortion more then a year ago after it became clear the developer (and most of the sycophantic players) had no interest in ever making it playable.

[Peter]

Whooo boy, you are asking for a flamefest.
*heads to his asbestos bunker.*