Game balance: character development vs raiding

[Turtleshot]

Remove the ability to murder... duh.

[ThirdEmperor]

The devs have repeatedly stated that they won't. Ever.

[Granger]

That is actually precisely what I don't want. I don't want it to feel "magical".

Guards Dogs?

[ThirdEmperor]

That is actually precisely what I don't want. I don't want it to feel "magical".

Guards Dogs?

I was just thinking that might just work.

[Turtleshot]

Then... how about upgrading the 'inherit' system. Right now, with full change you have 25% of your attributes given back. But that means that most skills values will give much less than what the original value of the points you've put into, as the skill values takes 100*value to upgrade.

[g1real]

Then... how about upgrading the 'inherit' system. Right now, with full change you have 25% of your attributes given back. But that means that most skills values will give much less than what the original value of the points you've put into, as the skill values takes 100*value to upgrade.

Those values are reset, not lowered to 25%

And you get 25% LP back from them from the original total cost.

[sabinati]

Then... how about upgrading the 'inherit' system. Right now, with full change you have 25% of your attributes given back. But that means that most skills values will give much less than what the original value of the points you've put into, as the skill values takes 100*value to upgrade.

Those values are reset, not lowered to 25%

And you get 25% LP back from them from the original total cost.

uh no, skills and stats are set to 25% of their pre-death amount. you get 25% of the LP you spent on skills like fishing, swimming, yeomanry, etc

[Swordmage]

Pvp is... late game content... so to speak. Most of our users are unaffected by it. It has also been a stated intention of mine for some time that we actually try to work somewhat on earlier resources/stuff, since the game is still lackluster early on. It is also true that I can only afford to have so much sympathy. The main issue, however, is that we haven't yet thought of a good enough mechanic for what we want to accomplish: namely claims defending themselves. Unless I have a stroke of genius, I wouldn't expect much to change here in any immediate future, though I do agree wholeheartedly that there is an issue here.

(Not that I don't have *any* ideas. I have lots of them.)

Unfortunately, as shown yesterday, PvP is not late game content; attacking using PvP is late game content.

I can fully accept that PvP is one of the primary features of the game; however, my problem is with the death penalty and potential property loss features as applied to the victims of (as opposed to participants in) PvP. If this game was obviously all about the PvP, extreme loss as part of the PvP mix could make sense since everyone is oriented toward getting prepared to fight others and starting over to prepare again makes sense; however, the game is also one of the better character/resource development games I have seen and attracts a Carebear crowd who really enjoy those aspects of the game.

It may be that without some form of game supported fortified city (as opposed to player created and maintained villages), there may be no non-magical way to solve my concerns. A place where HQ seeds, silkworm eggs, and other developed resources could be stored so that loss of a farm wouldn't mean loss of many RL months of work might go a ways toward solving the problem. A change to the death penalty so only combat related skills/attributes are affected by the LP loss might also help (please note: the active PvP players, and perhaps a few very old characters, are probably the only ones who would consider moving the Tradition/change slider towards tradition since they expect to be fighting or are at the point where skill increases provide reduced benefits (e.g., cooking above 90 or so); developing characters are the ones that are hit hardest by the 75% LP loss). A way to make ranged combat work easier when hunting animals (such as animal-only leg traps) would mean hunters could be less dependent on PvP skills.

[dcastello79]

I'm glad that the developers have not implemented "magical fixes" to the PvP issue because I think that PvP will need to remain in the long run. However, I also agree that there is an imbalance between development and raiding systems, which cause further systemic problems on other levels and areas of the game.

I think the cause of this imbalance is a matter of how time affects the two major systems (raiding + development). If one were to take the time element out, just hypothetically, one could see that there is really no imbalance. If you were to be raided, you can easily get materials back and start again. If you raid, you can easily be caught, and killed, which reduces you to the same situation as the person who was raided. The over-arching system of LP-based game mechanics is essentially run through a perspective of time. Time is the major influence on one's LP-derived skills, equipment, materials, etc. Now, I'm not saying that time, as a factor, should be removed from the game--I just used its absence in this statement to demonstrate my idea.

Thus, the issue that affects all sectors of this game is the LP system, which draws upon, mainly, time. Recently, Jorb hinted in his announcement, titled "Rambling from the Tea Party," that he seemed to have some (and I emphasize some, I'm not trying to put words in his mouth) discontent with the way the game plays out. It was also mentioned in that game that some system should be implemented that takes skill, material properties, and other major factors into account so that crafting, hunting, fighting, etc. would all be both more interesting, and more strategic. I think that a new system that incorporates these ideas, and steers away from focusing so much on 'time' as an essential factor, would re-vitalize the game, and would repair the imbalance between 'raiding' and 'development.'

[g1real]

Then... how about upgrading the 'inherit' system. Right now, with full change you have 25% of your attributes given back. But that means that most skills values will give much less than what the original value of the points you've put into, as the skill values takes 100*value to upgrade.

Those values are reset, not lowered to 25%

And you get 25% LP back from them from the original total cost.

uh no, skills and stats are set to 25% of their pre-death amount. you get 25% of the LP you spent on skills like fishing, swimming, yeomanry, etc

Hmm, I was sure they reset for me last time I died.

But I haven't died, in a long time.