Goal(interest) of the game at the last stage

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: Goal(interest) of the game at the last stage

Postby burgingham » Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:54 am

Pansy wrote:Heh-heh. I know exactly how much work it takes to build a big town and I know exactly who you are. ;) That's why I threw the gentle gibe in your direction. Seriously though, there are a lot of other paths in game that do not require you to build a town and then get stuck maintaining it. However they are probably all a lot less competitive paths than you would prefer.


Other paths deny you the actual late game content: high q ressources, gold, silver, good food and weapons. Also you should maybe stick to one account when posting related thoughts, much less confusing ;)
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Re: Goal(interest) of the game at the last stage

Postby Pansy » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:05 am

Yep. Sorry about the name change.

No offense but I find your late game content boooooooring. I can't imagine why you want all that stuff. Yes, I can see wanting good armour, or better armour but by the third upgrade yet another suit of armor is not nearly enough to motivate me to log on. I know it's the "real" late game content and the devs agree with you on that point. But good Lord! Don't you end up doing the same kind of stuff over and over and over and over just to get it five, ten, thirty points of q higher?

For me I need to find a way to do it differently after a short while or I would fall asleep on my keyboard. I can't keep mining the same mine, or tending the same fields, or tending the same set of herbalists' benches or going to the same damn grassland to kill this latest spawns crop of aurochsen. That lack of persistence deprives me of a chance at the late game content, but at least I'm getting the type of game I enjoy.
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Re: Goal(interest) of the game at the last stage

Postby burgingham » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:12 am

See, tedious and boring. I totally agree with you, but there is simply no other content to unlock and I have done everything you can do in this game often enough. So what is left is social interaction and politics for me. To be a political player you need high end stuff anyway. This might already be enough, since h&h keeps generating drama, wars and diplomacy, but a little ingame content for high end players wouldn't hurt either. I understand it though that making the game more interesting for newbies is of higher priority for the devs, at least this way we get new stuff to play around with each week too.
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Re: Goal(interest) of the game at the last stage

Postby Pansy » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:57 am

Well, I don't think any of my mid-game and opening games would work for you, but one thing I enjoy about this game is meeting new characters. If I meet them from different levels of development, as noobie, as midrange player, as established player the relationships that develop are very different, and this means a whole series of different types of interactions. I suspect you would not enjoy being the settlement noobie however, and would harly see interest in watching the way other people play and their priorities towards you -do they try to help? ignore? exploit? include? and then playing with those same people from a different position -approaching them with a different character, one that for example can meet their needs because of being a rather higher level hunter/farmer, and then comparing how they interact with the second character compared to the first. (The conclusion I have had reinforced from this is that most people are fairly nice to anyone/everyone.)

Another beginning game I enjoy is salvaging from abandoned settlements. That challenge is in part if you can't find it in the pillaged broken pallisades you do with out it. This means doing things like coming up with workarounds for not having any source of strength food. The constraints in this case are artificial because of course all I would have to do is getting hunting and go clobber a few boars, but using my imagination to come up with other ways of getting the str food uses a lot more of my mind than eating all the boar and bear I can lay my hands on.

I once had a little character who had spawned at RoB and decide to salvage a deserted settlement called "Helm's Deep". After a two or three day absence he came back to discover a stone mansion, all his crops removed and the land paved, and the pallisade he had almost finished repairing now sealed against him. He decided against confronting the interlopers. He thought they might not take it amiably! :lol:

Another variation I enjoy is constructing things. It's fun designing a settlement in a different way with different priorities, fun playing games like hiding high q fir trees in a wood full of ordinary wild q10 fir trees. It's also fun creating nice looking things like gardens, and mazes and knot gardens and models of the Cerne Abbas giant. But of course the important thing about this creation is to keep moving and not look back, as in a game of griefers and decay, to try to keep anything would mean getting very much tied down to its defense.

Another game I play is being griefer bait, to see if I can entice thieves to enter my claim and do certain things. It's all the funnier if I can track a relatively low level player to his unprotected hearth fire and try to befriend him afterwards. This is going to get harder, not easier now that hearth fires come with names.

One significant advantage to your style of play is that you get to associate with more persistent players. My style of moving on every few weeks means that I have no guarantees that the next set of people I start interacting with are likely to keep playing, where as you kinda can predict that someone who has put 900 hours into their character is likely to log on at some point during the weekend.

And a disadvantage to my style is that I tend to roll up new characters a lot, and there is a different tedium to that first half hour of getting them the skills they need to thrive. What, build another lean-to? But happily once they are launched they are launched and at least it only takes about half a playing session.
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Re: Goal(interest) of the game at the last stage

Postby Sarge » Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:10 am

I read all of the OP... and that says a bit for a lazy fucker like me... I did not read all the other walls of posts though.

My opinion of OP is that I disagree with the wiping and serious disaster elements. The opening statement and summary I thought was spot on though, albeit end-game content has been addressed a number of times and I certainly agree the the 'set-up' phase is by far the most exciting period and it takes a drastic dip from there in keeping ineterest. The unique quality system does a great job in making repitition more attractive, but it is not enough.

The 'regionality' of resources was mentioned again and again I am strongly for it. Imho, a massive step forward would be regionality of resources and weather effects and greater variety of fauna and flora with associated gear from pelts, teeth, claws inclusive of clothing, armor, weapons, buildings, farmable seeds, terrain etc etc etc will make a massive difference.

That said, weather effects I can only imagine to eat away at resources, so would hate to have that before lag is resolved.
factnfiction101 wrote:^I agree with this guy.
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Re: Goal(interest) of the game at the last stage

Postby Aspero » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:29 am

Well... When I made this topic, I wasn't aiming to describe all properties and nuances of my ideas. What I wanted - is to make raw concept, explaining the whole Idea or Vision of the problem instead of filling it up with practical and concrete suggestions, examples of my ideas application.

At first, I think, it is correct way to solve problems: is to find this problem; agree, that the problem exists; and find the most comfortable way to solve it...

Well, I guess my first post wasn't complete enough to explain it. Sorry. Of course, there is still a lot of thinking work is required.

P.S. I think, I'll make more detailed answer in the evening.
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Re: Goal(interest) of the game at the last stage

Postby Turtleshot » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:49 pm

The goal of this game should be to construct the BABEL TOWER!
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Re: Goal(interest) of the game at the last stage

Postby Brickbreaker » Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:04 pm

Turtleshot wrote:The goal of this game should be to construct the BABEL TOWER!


sigh. you guys simply don't get it do you?
If the devs were to implement something like that, despite how hard it is, someone will eventually build it and we are back to square one.

But if anyone read my earlier post (which is a concept not an idea) this would make an ongoing endgame by the players for the players without too
much tedium and repetition or need of constantly adding harder to build stuff.
Wiping the game periodically is a good idea but I just don't think this particular playerbase is willing to take it onboard.
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Re: Goal(interest) of the game at the last stage

Postby Yoji » Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:33 pm

I believe that establishing societies, cultures and religions is a decent goal. A little more help for players in this, and the game will shine new colors. Cities could provide citizens with certain advantages like guilds, shops, warehouses, inns, ports etc - things that require organization. With books implemented, and players putting effort in filling them with my-dick-your-dick poems good fan fiction, we could have had some kind of knowledge centers, libraries and studies, where skilled citizens could gather and generate information, as well as conduct researches. As for religion, i think of it as merely a global status effect (much like personal beliefs, but player-generated) on those who profess a particular faith.

...But then again i'm still a noob who enjoys breeding his carrots
Wait, I will light a lantern * To illuminate the slope * Down which * You'll slip into the darkness
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