The Curiosity System and What Went Wrong

[YoukaiMori]

1) Add a cut-off for LP gained through repeated simple crafts, E.G. if you craft 10 buckets within 60 minutes, you stop gaining LP from it, and the cutoff resets after an hour of not crafting a bucket.
2) Increase LP gained from uncommon/difficult crafts, E.G. silk cloths and other high-end multi-step crafts
3) Increase LP gained for final steps on crafting, E.G. making bread dough gives 1/3 the LP of actually baking the bread, making a cloth gives 1/3 the LP of making a shirt, things like that
4) Remove foraged curiosities, as those are easily collected by bots to feed entire armies with LP
5) Reduce the base LP of all crafted curiosities, E.G. Straw Doll from 850 to 400 at Q10
6) Change it so that each curiosity can only be studied once every base study time, E.G. Straw Doll takes 4.5 hours to study, once it's done you can't study another for 4.5 hours after to stop people from crafting the same curiosity over and over (Which was the original complaint with buckets and the old system, right?)

Obviously limited crafts like sausage making and such wouldn't have a cut-off, a ten minute hunting trip will have enough meat to make a cupboard full of sausages easily. A small town usually supplies one or two "chefs" with all the material to cook, if that's his job you don't want to limit how much LP he can gain from how he wants to play, and you don't want to punish the players, you only want to punish the "bots" right?

Curiosities as the only or main source of LP is horrible, they should be supplemental if anything. Something you use leftover material on, not the main thing you put your material into.

[APXEOLOG]

All you 'suggestions' (except no forage curios) just decrease global amount of LP per day but have no influence on 'alt army'. Also, when i was talking about W4 bots i didnt mean buckets. buckets is shit compairing even with soil digging in terms of botting. If we will cut exp from everything in the end we will have 2-3 hard-to-bot actions which will give LP. And this will be totally shitty. All professions will become useless since they don't give any LP. How will you increse farming if farming will not give you LP?

[YoukaiMori]

Why would we lower LP from everything? When did I ever suggest that? I said cut off repeated action LP, and increase LP gained from completing a craft chain. That means no more "Make 1000000 bread dough and drop them" because you're making 1/3 the LP you would if you finished baking them, which was a broad suggestion and not a "do EXACTLY this" suggestion. That's addressing a complaint in this very thread.

How is that reducing "daily LP gained" for anybody except people where LP pretty much no longer matters? Early game characters would see an increase in LP, mid game would still see one depending on how long they play each day meaning that yes, if you don't actually play the game more than an hour a day, you "fall behind" those that play for six, or eight, or ten, as it should be. End game players would not be able to queue up 120,000+ LP worth of curiosities and log off without playing to further the gap from early/mid game players.

I could go on, and on, but instead I'll point out that you obviously think that reducing the LP on curiosities is "reducing the LP on everything" which leads me back to a point I made in another thread saying anything that doesn't focus on the curiosity system would get dismissed by all supporters of the curiosity system.

[GrapefruitV]

Mentioned farming is repetitive action itself. Try to raise farming with crops quality increasing speed when it comes to 1000. It is not so easy even with current system, it will be impossible with your suggestions. ONE 300q cow gives about 3cbs of sausages, no cut offs needed, yeah. Bot doesn't care if he gets 1/3, it is easy to do it 3 times. Besides this is exactly what we already had: making a board was a lot less, than making a bucket.

You tricked me into conversation again, fatty. Fuck you.

[APXEOLOG]

Ok i will answer for every point.

1) Add a cut-off for LP gained through repeated simple crafts, E.G. if you craft 10 buckets within 60 minutes, you stop gaining LP from it, and the cutoff resets after an hour of not crafting a bucket.

This idea is good but only when you think about buckets. As i said previously buckets is just glitch wich use noobs to get some LP at start. If you will add cut-off for every repeatedly action such professions will be dead: farming (lot's of repeatedly actions with mid LP), mining (same), all food industry (cooking/baking/cheese production).
So we will have all peacefull professions dead since they will not have enough LP to progress. Also, speaking about simple actions you should understand that EVERYTHING could be botted. Farming, Mining, Cooking, Silk Producing, Cheese Making. Everything could be (already) botted.

2) Increase LP gained from uncommon/difficult crafts, E.G. silk cloths and other high-end multi-step crafts

Ok. So the only way to gain LP will be silk crafting and hunting? What other 'high-end multi-step crafts' do you mean? Steel making? As i said we will have 3 professions out of 10 will be able to progress.

3) Increase LP gained for final steps on crafting, E.G. making bread dough gives 1/3 the LP of actually baking the bread, making a cloth gives 1/3 the LP of making a shirt, things like that

I don't see any reason for it. It is not that hard (for good botter) to make bot that harvest wheat, grind, make bread and bake it.

4) Remove foraged curiosities, as those are easily collected by bots to feed entire armies with LP

There are only 6 good slots from foraging (edel, frog, glimmermoss, bluebell, flotsam). Two last curios need different kind of bot's/chars for botting and more uptime to get enough count, so not every alt will have them (speaking about army). 4 slots out of 16 comparing with 16 slots from crafting - i don't see anything gamebreaking here.
Also foraging is a part of out-of-wall gameplay. If you will remove it you will never ever see anyone outside walls.

5) Reduce the base LP of all crafted curiosities, E.G. Straw Doll from 850 to 400 at Q10

So? As i said this will just reduce amount of LP / day.

6) Change it so that each curiosity can only be studied once every base study time, E.G. Straw Doll takes 4.5 hours to study, once it's done you can't study another for 4.5 hours after to stop people from crafting the same curiosity over and over (Which was the original complaint with buckets and the old system, right?)

So? As i said this will just reduce amount of LP / day.

Obviously limited crafts like sausage making and such wouldn't have a cut-off, a ten minute hunting trip will have enough meat to make a cupboard full of sausages easily. A small town usually supplies one or two "chefs" with all the material to cook, if that's his job you don't want to limit how much LP he can gain from how he wants to play, and you don't want to punish the players, you only want to punish the "bots" right?

Limited crafts? Do you know how much meat produce high-q cows? And why should hunter give his exp to chief then? This will never work as you are imagine.

Curiosities as the only or main source of LP is horrible, they should be supplemental if anything. Something you use leftover material on, not the main thing you put your material into.

But how people will be able to progress their characters if 90% of time they will not receive LP (because 90% of time ppl making repeatedly actions which will have cut-off) and there will be nearly no LP from curios. Also those profession who will have enough LP will progress even more because they will also receive bonus LP from curiosities.

Summary: Your suggestions leads to reduction of LP / day, unbalanced profession progression, making people do not only that profession they like, but also any other LP-gain profession, even less combat then now (since all characters will be crafters too, noone will want to loose them).

Advice: Please, before insisting on your advices, think how they will influence on the game system in complex. I'm not really good in this part of game design and i think any good game designer will give you twice more reasons against your words.

[YoukaiMori]

1: I said simple crafts. I specifically said crafts because mining and farming are not crafts.
2: How is increasing the LP gained for the final action on a crafting chain going to make "silk crafting the only way to gain LP", silk was an example because it's time consuming and requires a lot of steps, and nobody bots silk crafting. Which is the complaint right? The old system was "unfair" because bots.
3: Incentives not to craft a bunch of dough and drop it as people say they always did.
4: You want another way to gain LP on top of the high end foraged curiosities? I'm seeing a pattern here, anything that doesn't get you a ton of LP is a bad idea to you. From the sound of it, you want the current system + MORE ways to gain LP. Again, I said foraged curiosities. There are other things to forage, and gee I don't know maybe Jorbtar can actually add more content which they haven't done since like world 2. This is to fix the LP system, not the entire game. If you want more things to forage maybe you should suggest them.
5: If you're gaining LP from other things, gaining less LP from curiosities will not reduce the amount of LP you gain per day unless you only play five minutes to queue curiosities and log off.
6: Same as above.
7: He took his time to raise a high quality cow, why shouldn't he reap the benefits? You want all the benefits from crafting a high quality curiosity in the current system don't you? Something that takes your time and effort like raising a "Q300 cow" shouldn't be limited, the complaint was that easy to do actions such as making buckets and digging was easy for bots to get LP with and was unfair, getting high quality cows is not something that bots can "easily" do. It's a time consuming process and requires a lot of other steps. Reward instead of punish those time consuming things.

8: I said repeated simple crafts. If you're making 100 camp fires, you're probably "grinding" which people said they didn't want to do. Every single craft has actions that aren't easily repeated by a bot or even a player. Things that are limited by resources, space, time, etc. I feel like I shouldn't have to explain this, that not ever action was "used to grind".

Here's a pretty easy way to explain the items that would have cut-offs for LP gained in a short period of time.

Could somebody possibly need 100 of them? If not, that item should probably have an LP cutoff. You'll never have a reason to make 100 buckets in an hour, or cheese trays, or straw hats, etc. Items like these would have cutoffs once you hit a certain number. Stopping the "grind" for making those items over and over. If that's the only way you think you can gain LP then the problem never lied with the old system it lied with people like you who refused to do anything else.

Advice: If you don't understand something don't comment on it as if you do and then put a little note at the bottom saying "I'm not really good in this part of game design".

[GrapefruitV]

1: I said simple crafts. I specifically said crafts because mining and farming are not crafts.

Crafts or not, those actions are easy to repeat over and over again without any purpose but getting lp, so such activities can not be rewarded in bots discouraging system.

2: How is increasing the LP gained for the final action on a crafting chain going to make "silk crafting the only way to gain LP", silk was an example because it's time consuming and requires a lot of steps, and nobody bots silk crafting. Which is the complaint right? The old system was "unfair" because bots.

A lot of people bot silkmaking now. With big lp reward pretty much everyone will get a bot for himself.

3: Incentives not to craft a bunch of dough and drop it as people say they always did.

There are public full cycle baking bots already by the way, so same story as with silkmaking

4: You want another way to gain LP on top of the high end foraged curiosities? I'm seeing a pattern here, anything that doesn't get you a ton of LP is a bad idea to you. From the sound of it, you want the current system + MORE ways to gain LP.

Uhm, this is exactly what you were complaining about. You couldn't get enough lp to develop, remember? And this is what you suggest with your system. So I don't know which "you" are you talking about.

7: He took his time to raise a high quality cow, why shouldn't he reap the benefits? You want all the benefits from crafting a high quality curiosity in the current system don't you? Something that takes your time and effort like raising a "Q300 cow" shouldn't be limited, the complaint was that easy to do actions such as making buckets and digging was easy for bots to get LP with and was unfair, getting high quality cows is not something that bots can "easily" do. It's a time consuming process and requires a lot of other steps. Reward instead of punish those time consuming things.

The person who raised cows is not the only one, who can use it. Dead cows will become curious analogue. You can steal it, you can buy it, you can use it to passively raise an alts army. Also it will encourage exploit of another game flaw - hunger system.

Could somebody possibly need 100 of them? If not, that item should probably have an LP cutoff. You'll never have a reason to make 100 buckets in an hour, or cheese trays, or straw hats, etc. Items like these would have cutoffs once you hit a certain number. Stopping the "grind" for making those items over and over.

So what about farming and mining? How would you know if I'm building a stone mansion, baking few thousands pies for sale or grinding lp?

If that's the only way you think you can gain LP then the problem never lied with the old system it lied with people like you who refused to do anything else.

How do you suggest to get rid of such people? Apx is already banned ingame, he can't use 30 of his and shared with him accounts, but he has another 40 to keep playing. You keep thinking about pink lands of unicorns instead of reality with bugousers, griefers and botters. Small group of hardcore botters can make game impossible for the whole server, you can't just ignore everything you don't like.

God dammit, I fell for the fatness again.

[PolyMcFee]

Is this guy still going on about this?
Seriously everyone just ignore him.
I deal with people like this quite often in RL.
They psychologically can not see beyond their own narrow field of view. And even if Jobtar would impliment his idea fully and and the rest of the community exploited the hell out if it he'd either say;
"This is great it is exactly how i like to play"
or
"...well they didn't implement it right.....(game update)....they still didn't implement exactly what i meant...(game update)... welllll.... i really meant for it to be like.....(game update).... they just aren't doing the right way ..i meant....."

Regardless of how much evidence of exploitation of said system get piled up against him.

Happy people find happiness in life.
Angry people rage against reality thinking that reality should change to make them happy.

[YoukaiMori]

Mori, instead of fighting a long lost battle, why don't you put some of that effort into thinking of a new system that is better than both curios and the old system, so there is actually constructive, progressive discussion. I admire your tenacity, but its poorly directed.

Because anything that doesn't let you gain LP while logged out will seem like the anti-christ to you and all supporters of the study system. Why would I put in even more effort than I already have (I.E. My thread about what is wrong with the study system, in which I put a lot of time and effort in to my points and reasoning, which was dismissed with several "I'm not going to read it but you're wrong.") into a "new" system when people like you will continue to deny anything that doesn't involve exp over time?

I've already stopped posting in that thread because of it, and in this thread it's completely fine for people like Electric Retard to post support of the study system which doesn't have anything to do with the thread topic, but if anybody posts in this thread AGAINST the study system people attack them. It's pretty much at Bioware forums levels of stupidity if the LP system ever gets brought up.

If you're against it, ding dong bannu (Or posts deleted and called names.)

[YoukaiMori]

Wall of text.

It seems like you hate everything about H&H, why do you keep playing? it's not even the suggested LP system I just posted you hate, you hate everything about everything, you say everybody bots everything (besides you, right?), you say everything is an exploit or a game flaw (like the hunger system) and yet you're still arguing, why? For all intents and purposes, you hate H&H. So why are you even arguing with me? Just to argue?