Developer Thoughts on PvP

[Potjeh]

It seems more intuitive to me that a claim fuelled by items is disconnected from character rather than one fuelled by character :S

For the latter, village dropping works just fine, but I do agree that no claims should last in perpetuity, the world should attempt to revert to it's natural state over time else in a long lasting world the initial supergrids would be a desolate wasteland.

All of this is fine, though, but it doesn't relate much to changing warfare to involve villages. I know you can clarify what you meant there because you were pretty clear on these recent things, but I guess you just don't want to. Though the whole "avoid scent leaving" thing seemed like a clear case of a bad idea to me.

[Pictor]

It seems more intuitive to me that a claim fuelled by items is disconnected from character rather than one fuelled by character :S

Technically any limited resource would do. LP is just the most appropriate because everybody has access to it and is constantly generating more, but it's still severely limited and under constant demand from other things. If a claim ate curiosities you could just gather a big pile and dump them in it without any real detriment to yourself. You should have to pay for land, and curiosities would be too low a cost.



The whole "village warfare" line was one of the least significant parts of my entire original post. Seriously. I didn't say it because I had a plan for how to modify village warfare. I said it because I needed an example of "rules that could be tampered with", and the first one to come to mind was "explicit scent rules for village vs village warfare", whatever those rules may be, regardless of if they'd be a good idea or not and regardless of how they'd be implemented.

The point had nothing to do with village warfare and everything to do with dispelling the notion that Haven and Hearth has no rules or social laws.

[Potjeh]

It was the only thing irrelevant to PvP in a thread about PvP, so I thought it's the main point. It didn't occur to me that the whole post is about dispelling the idea that H&H is absolute chaos, because nobody actually thinks it is.

[Pictor]

It was the only thing irrelevant to PvP in a thread about PvP, so I thought it's the main point. It didn't occur to me that the whole post is about dispelling the idea that H&H is absolute chaos, because nobody actually thinks it is.

Not so much that it's absolute chaos, but that it is somehow "devoid of abstract rules".

The post wasn't entirely about that point though. The first half was an explanation as to why realism doesn't really work as a guideline for design.

[Potjeh]

Why does that need a post, though? In case you haven't noticed, invoking realism arguments is frowned upon on these boards.

And yeah, everyone agrees that there are in fact abstract rules, and I don't really see how you can have a system without rules if it's not total chaos.

[Pictor]

Why does that need a post, though? In case you haven't noticed, invoking realism arguments is frowned upon on these boards.

I didn't realize I needed a solid reason to post. I was skimming, I saw some vague discussion about realism and laws and I decided to write a bit about why realism was bogus design paradigm. When most people say "realism is bad", it's usually for shallow reasons like "this is just a game and games are meant to be fun and realism isn't fun". It was an attempt to contribute to the discussion and reflect some general thoughts about design. It was meant simply to encourage thought and discussion. Things only turned to shit when you got snarky.

Actually, come to think of it, there was also the point that PvP isn't an all-or-nothing thing. People seem to read statements like "PvP could use some balancing" and their brains convert it to "I HATE PVP I JUST WANT TO BUILD AND FARM AWAY FROM MEAN PEOPLE". This is one of the reasons I maintain that most people are fuckwits; Because they can't fucking read.

[MagicManICT]

Technically any limited resource would do. LP is just the most appropriate because everybody has access to it and is constantly generating more, but it's still severely limited and under constant demand from other things. If a claim ate curiosities you could just gather a big pile and dump them in it without any real detriment to yourself. You should have to pay for land, and curiosities would be too low a cost.

Well, you can limit the amount of a resource loaded in at once (just like a Mentory) instead of using a limited resource. (After all, a bank vault is only a certain size and a train can only pull so much weight.) You'd still need to have people around to reload things as time went on. What's the difference between putting the curio in a mentory and a claim inventory? The same amount of work goes into earning the same number of LP. As it stands, authority is earned in addition to LP, and is a great tool for making sure a village stays active or becomes a non-issue. Is there better? Probably, but I'm not the genius that's going to come up with it and give it away for someone else to use.

The whole "village warfare" line was one of the least significant parts of my entire original post. Seriously. I didn't say it because I had a plan for how to modify village warfare. I said it because I needed an example of "rules that could be tampered with", and the first one to come to mind was "explicit scent rules for village vs village warfare", whatever those rules may be, regardless of if they'd be a good idea or not and regardless of how they'd be implemented.

Yeah, but it seems the one thing that's missing. EVE pulls this off grandly, I think. However, the rules of the game are significantly different. I could see an "official" two sided war--not just one side war--going off and nobody leaves any scents behind to be tracked down.

The point had nothing to do with village warfare and everything to do with dispelling the notion that Haven and Hearth has no rules or social laws.

I don't recall anyone ever saying HnH has, "No rules or social laws." Unless, of course, you're saying that yourself. Maybe I missed that post. <shrug>

[Jackard]

[novaalpha]

please list some features that could be added to villages

Village roster accessible to LS by right click on idol, with a members list, online/offline status and exile button.

[sabinati]

lawspeaker can exile from kinlist, lawspeaker should have every village member kinned by default, even if only chief has met and invited to village