The Curiosity System and What Went Wrong

[Nummy]

Biggest problems of new systems are:

-early game is boring as hell. Not enough low level int food except blueberries, you can't raise/farm your own int food at start, comparing to that when I get carrots I can easily raise my perc to about 50. Also at early game waiting more than 10min for curio to finish is boring even more. You don't have enough int so you fill in 2-5 shitty curios and then you have to wait 24 hours to get some LP. Meantime? Scratch your bottom...

Within the first 20 minutes of a world I'd
-Have a character set up to fish all day for int etc(though admittedly, mightn't be able to find a spot to fish in the shallows immediately)
-paving/stockpiling logs
-hunting rabbits for slings/blackpacks
-stockpiling the basic curios(dragonflies, ants, ruby dragonflies, cow hairs)
-exploring for nearby swamps/mudflats/mountains/caves so you'll know where they're as soon as you get decent perc*explor
-checking quality of nearby nodes (clay can be calculated at 1 surv, grassland can be calced on 1surv, other soil, water and stone can be calculated at 11)
-gathering as much food as possible, even if it's for later
-Building alt characters with poop curios for specific stuff (Pclaim alt, boat building altneed dat LP for sewing and explor clearly



This would be done for a crafter, forager and warrior.
I STRONGLY disagree that there's nothing to do early game, even in the first couple hours before you've any LP.
Unsure why I'm arguing, just bored

-Yes fish... if you have luck to get right fish. Oh and let's not forget that you get crappy q fish until you raise some skills.
-I pave and build my house, then I cut down few trees and I don't really need 1000 logs.
-yes hunting rabbits for slings and leather while you don't have any storage to safely store it and first russian that comes accross steals you everything. GG.
-same as leather and other stuff. Without claim and basic walls everyone will steal from you.
-exploring is fast and you don't really ened to explore whole world in one day. Also running around means danger, specially at start of the world. And to actually have any good of exploration (find good clay, soil and water) you need good survival skill which is pretty hard to get at start as you have to buy other skills as well. Oh yeah then we are back to army of alts... one alt for everytihng? We should bot from day one? right.
-read one above. you need skill which you cannot afford because you need to buy other more important skills.
-and again read above, everyone will steal from you without claim and palisade
-yes army of alts... army of bots...

[Gray]

Harder actions, such as killing bears or trolls, gave you a respectable amount of LP for the effort put in, while the total was fairly large, bears and trolls were uncommon and somewhat hard to kill, unless you were well established already.

Trolls were implemented after the new curiosity driven LP system so you never got LP for the actual killing action.

This lead to a skewed number of "bot" reports. That is, people would complain about bots deforesting areas to make buckets to gain LP. I am not saying bots never existed, of course they do, bots exist for nearly every multiplayer game there is. Bots exist today in H&H as well. In this case, however, a lot of the people being reported as "bots" were not actually bots. Forests being deforested were often done by people in their off time, by new players, and in fact whenever new players would ask how to gain LP fast, people would suggest "Make buckets", leading to most new players immediately crafting piles of buckets to gain easy LP. Most players, at one point, had done this.

This is the cause. This is the reason Jorbtar decided on a new system for LP, they had increased complaints about bots, the vocal part of the community then attached themselves to the same idea that it's bots that are the reason they aren't at the top of the LP food chain, it's bots that are the reason other people are more well established, if you're not botting, you can't possibly have that much LP, this is unfair, this needs to be changed. Remove bots, remove kebab, remove LP. An example of this outrageous complaint can be seen even within the past week in a discussion that was deleted wherein one party, the one against the old LP system, claimed "99% of players were botting" and meant it in all seriousness.

I dont believe the LP system was changed solely because people were exploiting it with bots, it's not fun to do the same task over and over again to gain LP especially when it sounds stupid like turning forests into buckets, turn your village into a wheat field and bake bread, etc.)

(I would go on with the quote and answer method but im running short of time)
I dont think the LP system is the major problem in declining population, I think is lack of end game content with these as exceptions:

- Pvp helps up to a certain point where people start dying and quitting leaving the survivors with a ton of combat skills and the victims with a lot of work to redevelop characters.
- Quality progression of items
- Mining and prospecting

The first gets more and more boring as there's less and less players.
The second is too fast in the beginning and really slow in the end.
And the third is just overall boring, just bland and underdeveloped.

After that was said I don't disagree with you that the game needs a tiny reward for every time you perform any task.
I believe we should have the old system back but with dimishing returns, the more you make buckets the less you gain lp from them until you made like 300 of them and you gain 1 lp.

[sabinati]

because he's basic

Hey Sabi-kun, Sabi-chan, how about those 100,000 curiosities you craft and then drop on the ground after? The bread dough curiosities. It's okay though because they're curiosities and not bread dough you're throwing away.

At this point I'm done with explanations and long posts I'm just going to use the same style of discussion you guys do. Seems to save me a lot of time.

Edit:

Did you just say she because he has a chinese girl cartoon picture as his avatar? I weep for you, "Da grim reefah", you edgy stoner you.

are you stoned

[dagrimreefah]

Did you just say she because he has a chinese girl cartoon picture as his avatar? I weep for you, "Da grim reefah", you edgy stoner you.

No I said 'she' because TonkyHonk is a female you fucking idiot. But its ok, we've all been laughing hard at you since you started this crybaby diatribe of yours, so weep away retard.

[GrapefruitV]

Dat chinese girl cartoon picture

[Patchouli_Knowledge]

That is an oni mask, I believe unless my understanding of Japanese folklore is off.

[Tonkyhonk]

yes, it is one of oni-masks in general, but to be more precise, its called hannya.

[AnnaC]

My main disagreement with this whole argument is the idea that the game is boring because you don't get LP for your actions. This is a good thing, it makes actions in this game important for their economic necessity, rather than just to grind more LP. Having all potential LP character growth come from actions forces the player to play certain ways which they may not want to do economically, because it is the most efficient method of gathering LP (but beyond that have little to no economic use). Hunting herds of aurochs for example, in World 3 a good way to get LP, but at a certain point nobody needed q10 beef and hides.

The curiosity system allows characters to grow in LP without detracting them from doing actions they need or want to do for aesthetics or economics. Not that there aren't limitations still, or that some actions aren't worthwhile anymore (for example, world 3, the last 2-3 months I grew my characters almost exclusively from foraging and cartography, and I would trade foragables and maps with locals for tools and armors; with cartography not producing any LP anymore, that makes the action worthless -- along with auto-mapping clients for sure).

You don't even bring up the two REAL problems with the curiosity system: it broke the system of alt hearthlings and perma-death, and it broke personal claim mechanics. With personal claims, since the only metric for claim expansion is investing LP in it, they are completely inbalanced in their influential power; a few small changes this world had alleviated some aspects of it, but they are still ridiculously over-powered; and village authority is much, much easier to maintain in the curiosity system (which I think is a good thing at the moment as a balance against personal claims, but otherwise it is a bit too easy to maintain village authority with a single hearthling).

But you don't even bring up these aspects because you're a deluded powergaming grinder who only sees an action as being important if you can notice your numbers and progress bar going up because of it. Fuck you and fuck that mentality which destroys immersion in a video game genre that should be primarily about immersion.

I think the game is much richer with the new system because an action isn't about gaining LP, it's about doing the action for it's own sake.

[jorb]

1) Add a cut-off for LP gained through repeated simple crafts, E.G. if you craft 10 buckets within 60 minutes, you stop gaining LP from it, and the cutoff resets after an hour of not crafting a bucket.

Yes, please let us set up a situation where I have to log in every so often to craft my mandatory ten buckets, saws, thingamajigs and assorted widgets (throwing them away, of course) only so as to reset their LP-gain-cooldown.

[NOOBY93]

1) Add a cut-off for LP gained through repeated simple crafts, E.G. if you craft 10 buckets within 60 minutes, you stop gaining LP from it, and the cutoff resets after an hour of not crafting a bucket.

Yes, please let us set up a situation where I have to log in every so often to craft my mandatory ten buckets, saws, thingamajigs and assorted widgets (throwing them away, of course) only so as to reset their LP-gain-cooldown.

That's kinda how this is, though. You log in every so often, craft the curios, put them in, and you can't put the set of curios in again until the 'cooldown' is over, when you just put them in again.