Since when do the devs do resurections on request?

[burgingham]

Has everyone here lost his ability to comprehend simple comments? Where in the world do I mention that I don't exclude future rezzes because of accounts being compromised? I am all against it, that is exactly why I think rage should not be rezzed.

[RickyP0602]

Has everyone here lost his ability to comprehend simple comments? Where in the world do I mention that I don't exclude future rezzes because of accounts being compromised? I am all against it, that is exactly why I think rage should not be rezzed.

Unless of course it is your character.

[DatOneGuy]

Has everyone here lost his ability to comprehend simple comments? Where in the world do I mention that I don't exclude future rezzes because of accounts being compromised? I am all against it, that is exactly why I think rage should not be rezzed.

Unless of course it is your character.

I believe he covered that already and I feel the same way.

If it was my character or village this happened to I would indeed be butthurt and try everything I could to get it back, however I would know, as I do know, that it is unfair in every way, that it is a mistake that:
A ) The village made - trusting all their stats into one jeweler, and trusting someone they knew this could happen with

B ) Rage made - for using a password anyone else knew and not learning that there is a difference between private and public things

I'm lucky that this didn't happen to me, or Sodom as I can actually say what I feel as a third party (up until supposedly 'us getting him un-ressed) I can speak my opinion on the matter without it being jeoperdized by my position.

And since some goon hinted earlier about "bite the hand that feeds you" as if I was giving Gato free things or as if he was a member of Sodom, this is not the case. Have I traded with him? Never yet. Have I met him ingame? Once or twice in Constantinople, a neutral city, therefore even if I did want to attack him, it wouldn't happen. Will I trade with him now? Yes. Will I give him some sort of special 'Sodom price' because he's some 'special member'? No.

I have no bias towards either member other than Rage having constantly attacked me in IRC for over a month, as far as I knew whatever problems he had with me were gone as he wasn't at my throat the past few weeks, and due to that I no longer harbored any negative emotions towards him and do not now.

Is it overkill that his character was decimated without ancestors? Possibly.
Did they know what they got into when they attempted to get him re-ressed under some rather false pretenses (including lies)? I believe so.

To state it plainly, either you as goons are idiots for believing what happened there happened as it did and that the outcome would be purely positive, or you are more conniving and underhanded than I thought.

[Spiff]

To state it plainly, either you as goons are idiots for believing what happened there happened as it did and that the outcome would be purely positive, or you are more conniving and underhanded than I thought.

Please tell me which part of this is not correct:

1) Gato stole Rage's account information
2) Gato used said stolen account information to kill Rage's character
3) Goons said "hey, that's not cool" and tried to correct the incident of a stolen account
4) Everyone cries

I really don't understand why you're so upset that we're upset that somebody's account information was stolen. We're either idiots for being upset that something underhanded and illegal was used to kill a member of our village or we're conniving and underhanded for lying (about what?).

And the net result makes absolutely zero sense. Why does Rage now have no ancestors? And why does Gato still have all the loot he stole off of Rage and alt vaulted? The absolute most that Rage can be guilty of in this case is a severe case of poor password security. Why is he punished above and beyond the penalty inflicted in-game of having his character killed? And why does Gato get to keep the benefits reaped by stealing account information?

[RickyP0602]

To state it plainly, either you as goons are idiots for believing what happened there happened as it did and that the outcome would be purely positive, or you are more conniving and underhanded than I thought.

Please tell me which part of this is not correct:

1) Gato stole Rage's account information
2) Gato used said stolen account information to kill Rage's character
3) Goons said "hey, that's not cool" and tried to correct the incident of a stolen account
4) Everyone cries

I really don't understand why you're so upset that we're upset that somebody's account information was stolen. We're either idiots for being upset that something underhanded and illegal was used to kill a member of our village or we're conniving and underhanded for lying (about what?).

4. I have no tear ducts...

[DatOneGuy]

To state it plainly, either you as goons are idiots for believing what happened there happened as it did and that the outcome would be purely positive, or you are more conniving and underhanded than I thought.

Please tell me which part of this is not correct:

1) Gato stole Rage's account information
2) Gato used said stolen account information to kill Rage's character
3) Goons said "hey, that's not cool" and tried to correct the incident of a stolen account
4) Everyone cries

I really don't understand why you're so upset that we're upset that somebody's account information was stolen. We're either idiots for being upset that something underhanded and illegal was used to kill a member of our village or we're conniving and underhanded for lying (about what?).

And the net result makes absolutely zero sense. Why does Rage now have no ancestors? And why does Gato still have all the loot he stole off of Rage and alt vaulted? The absolute most that Rage can be guilty of in this case is a severe case of poor password security. Why is he punished above and beyond the penalty inflicted in-game of having his character killed? And why does Gato get to keep the benefits reaped by stealing account information?

Because if you tell someone the safe combination to your millions of dollars and he goes and wastes it all it's no fucking surprise and you're an idiot for believing he wouldn't. That's before even adding in the fact that you have tension with the guy!

Because Gato was smart enough to altvault? Derpherp?
Because nothing can be proven and the drama is between both of them.
Now if Gato came here and said that Rage never gave him not a drop of shit IRL for this (which isn't what he's told me at all, and Rage hasn't said otherwise when confronted on the matter) then I'd possibly believe that.
Otherwise, that's not the only thing he's guilty of, he faciliated the events that led to what Gato did by making his life pretty much a pain.
Did Rage know it was possible that loftar would res him with just some lie? No.
Was that Rage's motive in any case? I couldn't say, he could have had these ulterior motives in doing what he did, he could have just been 'fed up with Gato's shit', either way it was the outcome.

Hmm the funny thing though, where is Rage in defending himself in all of this? The same place he was the first time, gone? Did he say "Hey guys, make sure you get my account back"? Are you doing this because you want his account back or you want back the effort you poured into the character?

I question almost all of the motives because I question what you actually think happened, what you say you thought was the case, and why you continue when you know you are wrong and the only thing that you are pleading is that "We were wrong, WE DID IT! NOT Rage!", but you're not saying "Kill my guy not Rage" you're saying "Bring him because we deserve no loss at all, we so importantz!"


Please tell me which part of this is not correct:

1)Rage killed Gato leaving Gato with possible control of his account. I don't know whether Gato and Rage talked about it before Rage killed Gato's character, I don't know how that went down, possible start of the whole problem.
2)Gato decides to kill Rage's character since he had full access to his accounts and everything. (You goons apparently think he 'stole his account' and largely overplay this ; Where was Rage when this 'idea' came into play?)
3)More shit happens, goons have a bitchfest and claim that Gato hacked his account, even know instead of 'hack' you still overplay it and say he 'stole' his account, all 100% bullshit, stretching the rules of access and permission and claiming that it's more than a personal problem and is actual cause for dev intervention.
4)Claim that everyone else is QQing because an obvious bullshit resurrection happened, after I tell you what I've heard and that I know that Gato lied and was put on to the lying through Rage (forcing his hand with aforementioned personal IRL drama to the point of having his actual family force him to 'fix the problem')
5)QQ because you think you deserved what you gained through deception and bullshit
6)Cry more

Stiff upper lips chaps, if you think this is a reason to quit you're sorely mistaken, it's like you guys are quitting at the first boss. You think I'd want Rage not to be ressurrected if it meant all goons quit? I'd rather have you guys here and actually have an 'enemy' than have you all quit like little babby, however it's unfair bullshit to have that happen so why don't you all stop crying on the internet and get back in game, build another character (ProTip: It's not that hard with current tables which you'll still have for a bit, hope Rage made the best table he could) up to that point and keep on trekking.

The one thing I think that should be changed that hasn't been is that all items taken from Rage's character should be deleted if they can be tracked. Not saying that names should be stated (Don't give out Gato's new character name, I'm sure you guys would hunt and kill him) but it would be 'fair' if all items were removed.

--
Sorry, my bad goons weren't lying, they were just misinformed greatly. Given their information at the time, their status makes much more sense.

[MightyAgrippa]

words words words words words

tl;dr

Remember hearthlings, being a victim of account theft is now punishable by UltraDeath.

[Avu]

So better secure your accounts then!

[Blacktooth]

So yeah, anyway. Maybe the next time this happens in whatever form the reaction will actually attempt to solve the problem. H&H is a good game. It needs to be protected more.

If you have any suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them. I think the game is rather secure from a technical standpoint, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be improved, obviously.

Well, in this instance there was obviously nothing you could have done to prevent Gato from using the password recovery to gain access to Rage's account. But there are a few things I would change.

The largest of these is the open client itself. If it were me, I would find some way of separating the client/server authorization from the moddable parts of the client. Someone with a chip on their shoulder, a little knowledge of Java, and the will to do so could wipe out a lot of hearthlings.

I'd add an extra layer to password recovery most likely in the form of secret questions and answers. Like passwords, they are only as strong as the user creates them to be, but they do help and they do work.

And last but not least, firm rules on what is acceptable as far as account access goes. What is acceptable, what isn't, and a firm definition of any repercussions.

Actually, one other thing. Firm definitions of what is and isn't acceptable as far as game mechanics go. As an example, I know wall jumping is difficult to get rid of, but should it be acceptable because of this. I know in most cases scents will be left, and that patches it up somewhat, but what about avoiding scents?

These are things I would change.

Thanks for asking. By the way, I have not been expending this much energy to get anyone's character back, but I would like to see this not happen again...to anyone.

[loftar]

The largest of these is the open client itself. If it were me, I would find some way of separating the client/server authorization from the moddable parts of the client. Someone with a chip on their shoulder, a little knowledge of Java, and the will to do so could wipe out a lot of hearthlings.

That's a weird suggestion. How would closing the source code make the protocol more secure? (And is there anything wrong with it to begin with, as you seem to imply?) Anyone with a little knowledge of Java could reverse-engineer the class files anyway, and anyone without a little knowledge of Java could reverse-engineer the protocol, and any security protocol that relies on implementation obscurity is a bad idea to begin with.

And last but not least, firm rules on what is acceptable as far as account access goes. What is acceptable, what isn't, and a firm definition of any repercussions.

I don't really have an interest in setting up and maintaining a bureaucracy, though. I'm actually rather inclined to agree with those who say that account security is the owner's own problem. I don't see why I should have to take responsibility for people choosing weak passwords. I also wouldn't want to take away people's freedom in sharing accounts by setting up inflexible rules by administrative fiat.

Actually, one other thing. Firm definitions of what is and isn't acceptable as far as game mechanics go. As an example, I know wall jumping is difficult to get rid of, but should it be acceptable because of this. I know in most cases scents will be left, and that patches it up somewhat, but what about avoiding scents?

And then what? Enforcing each case of wall-jumping on unclear evidence, after it has been committed? Remunerating the victims? Moderating the game is another of those things that I don't in the least feel like doing. In that case, I'd rather use my time to fix wall-jumping.

(It's not my intention to be aprioristically dismissive; I'm just not too fond of those suggestions.)