The Curiosity System and What Went Wrong

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Re: The Curiosity System and What Went Wrong

Postby YoukaiMori » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:32 am

Jackard wrote:
YoukaiMori wrote:2) It's not shit posting or derailing if it doesn't get reported.

nope, still is! however

1. mods dont read every thread
2. each mod interprets the rules differently
3. reporting problem posts increases the likelihood of a fair decision from being read by multiple mods

ps. you overestimate your significance

1: You read this thread and you read that post
2: You were the one who brought it up
3: Okay. So then it was still shitposting and derailing, where is his public threat since the initial post that caused the "derail" was his? The biggest problem here is you're issuing threats publicly where multiple people are doing the same thing you're threatening for, but only against one person, which makes the other people think they can keep going and shitposting, which they are.

P.S. You have done nothing but shitpost in this thread. You haven't posted on topic one time.

GrapefruitV wrote:How many buckets, low q straw hats and fox hides did you sell?

How many have you sold in worlds 5-7? That is absolutely nothing to do with the old system at all. Those objects just don't have value.

DrakenRahl's post

Sounds like you have an alt that is being force fed curiosities so you don't have to play that character for anything outside of one very specific task. That's not to say I didn't have friends who played pure farming characters, but in your case it sounds like you're complaining that it would be harder to make an alt for every individual craft in a system that isn't curiosities. Am I guessing right?
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Re: The Curiosity System and What Went Wrong

Postby Tonkyhonk » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:39 am

YoukaiMori wrote:You haven't posted on topic one time.

i posted a few on topic and you ignored them all, but still replied to my other posts you call shitposting. its easy to assume you wanted to talk about it.

so where is your counter-argument to what i said?

@nummy,
read back your own post history when you did the same arguments before, and check if you said anything new this time that actually added to all those old ones.
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Re: The Curiosity System and What Went Wrong

Postby YoukaiMori » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:43 am

Tonkyhonk wrote:
YoukaiMori wrote:You haven't posted on topic one time.

i posted a few on topic and you ignored them all, but still replied to my other posts you call shitposting. its easy to assume you wanted to talk about it.

so where is your counter-argument to what i said?

@nummy,
read back your own post history when you did the same arguments before, and check if you said anything new this time that actually added to all those old ones.

I can't find anything you've said that I haven't responded to. Which is apparently a problem, because by responding to your derailing off-topic posts, the fault ends with me.
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Re: The Curiosity System and What Went Wrong

Postby Tonkyhonk » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:51 am

Last edited by Tonkyhonk on Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Curiosity System and What Went Wrong

Postby GrapefruitV » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:51 am

YoukaiMori wrote:
GrapefruitV wrote:How many buckets, low q straw hats and fox hides did you sell?

How many have you sold in worlds 5-7? That is absolutely nothing to do with the old system at all. Those objects just don't have value.


This is exactly my point, but you're comparing not buckets to buckets, but mass-produced for lp grind things to curios, your words:
You can not possibly say the economy is "better" now because you don't "just craft things for LP". When quite literally the only reason that curios are crafted is for LP, which is what he was saying, some things were "only crafted for LP" and had no "economic value".

You crafted buckets only for lp and they had no economic value (which also brings us back to not intended way of items usage), you're crafting curios for lp and they do have economic value. And also curios finally brought in nice currency. Market in w3 was a horrible mess, you had to spend a lot of time comparing prices in different threads. So yes, economy is better now.
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Re: The Curiosity System and What Went Wrong

Postby DrakenRahl » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:14 pm

YoukaiMori wrote:Sounds like you have an alt that is being force fed curiosities so you don't have to play that character for anything outside of one very specific task. That's not to say I didn't have friends who played pure farming characters, but in your case it sounds like you're complaining that it would be harder to make an alt for every individual craft in a system that isn't curiosities. Am I guessing right?


Your 1/4th right.
I'm saying that in your system(a non-curio system) You retard peoples ability to grow, limiting how high Q can get. Because getting LP is slower. and FORCE them to be one dimensional just to grind even more LP to branch into other area is impossible. And in that system they spend all their playing time making that ONE character. So making a second character to go hunting with is a no go. Because I am forced to decide....5 hours of LP grinding so i can raise my farmers Farming to 502 OR go have fun hunting....? Your system you CANNOT do both.. Current curio based LP system. I can do both While also collecting curios in my travels AND have a guy that is raising his sewing AND alt that is raising his Carpentry, AND a guy that is pumping his stealth. ALL at the same time while i have FUN boating about the world seeing what other people are doing with their time. All of this while NOT spending 5 hours in my fields/(any other industry) trying to gain enough LP to raise my farmers Farming to 502.
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Re: The Curiosity System and What Went Wrong

Postby AnnaC » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:05 pm

YoukaiMori wrote:
AnnaC wrote:The problem with the idea of "natural" LP gain from actions themselves is the balance between the ease of an action and the LP gained. This was why there was so much trouble with the old system; actions would be performed not for their intrinsic economic function but in order to gain LP. The curio system overrides this and makes actions worthwhile for their economic value alone. The only relationship is the economic actions to produce curios, which is relatively limited compared to the economically null actions you'd do in previous worlds just to maintain a good LP growth rate (like murdering herds of aurochs and mouflon you don't want or need the products from for the good quick LP gain).

It's not the best system, sure, but it's much better than an LP-per-action system, on all accounts. The only way an action-based LP system would be viable would be if LPs were not freely spent and would only be related to the skills and proficiencies that are related to the action itself. I think ideally a system like this would be the best, but that would take a lot of new design considerations and a lot of balancing in it's own right as well (not to mention a balance between useful products and practice junk for improving such proficiencies).

I'm not sure you realize this, but every problem you have with the old system in this post applies to curios. Objects that weren't worth anything before are worth even less because now they don't even give you LP, if you're saying they were only ever made for LP, they aren't somehow worth more because they don't give LP now, I'm not sure how you could even think this is the case. You would rather see animals go completely ignored because people no longer want or need anything from them at all (A content issue, not an LP system issue) than see people hunting those creatures for LP? While I've never left anything besides foxes or boars just lying around (And usually I skinned the boar) I'd rather the creatures have SOME use than none at all.

You also go on to suggest a "grind one skill to level that skill" system which is the worst possible system in any sandbox game and is most of the reason sandbox games die quick. Nobody wants to spend 50 hours smithing a sword to be able to make a slightly better sword with no other way to do it. Can you imagine leveling marksman in a system like that? How would you even raise Exploration? Etc

Quick. List every curiosity that's actually worth something in trade. From what I can see in the trading section, I can name them for you!

Pearls, bluebells. Tell me how that "economy" is better than before.


Pearls and bluebells are only economically prominent because their potency and portability. Chantrelles and blueberries still have trading potential as well. The only items that are entirely worthless nowadays are Inkweed mainly, because the cartography system is worthless and you only need to make Party Hats once in awhile. Even Bloodstems, poppy garlands are a consumable so have sporadic demand for them. Yes, the curio system has justed the economy somewhat, but I think automated forage botters, and the general change of community from sporadic power blocs to global-spanning grief and troll gank squads making manual foraging more dangerous, have been stronger factors in pushing this inflated economy more than the curio system itself.

Also, the fact that barter stands haven't been updated to recognize half the new items since World 5 as payment options, greatly diminish this. (For example, I'd love to sell products for Lady's Mantles, Brambles, and other basic foraged curios that are relatively prevalent in my area but I don't go out foraging because of various social concerns.) There is only so much I can sell for blueberries, chantrelles, and nettles, the basic mass foragables that cooks will always need in any world of Haven.

And yes, I would rather see animals go ignored if their products are unused than having to boat around any river system in a grassland and having to see decaying carcasses every five feet like before because nobody would use the products because nobody needed q10 beef and cow skin and only took the time to kill the animals for the LP.

I only suggested the "grind a skill to level that skill" as a useful methodology for an ACTION BASED LP GENERATION SYSTEM WHICH YOU PROMOTE, WHICH IS WHAT GRINDING IS. You're the one wanting to perpetuate grind. There is no grind now apart from raising product quality, you're just a powergaming baby who needs instant gratification with your numbers going up which is why you can't stand the curio system, because while you play you don't get constant reminders that your character's numbers are increasing.
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Re: The Curiosity System and What Went Wrong

Postby Tonkyhonk » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:11 pm

AnnaC wrote:The only items that are entirely worthless nowadays are Inkweed mainly

:cry: but, but, but, we need ink to write letters!!!
(a friend of mine uses it a lot for his village management.)
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Re: The Curiosity System and What Went Wrong

Postby Jackard » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:02 pm

YoukaiMori wrote:P.S. You have done nothing but shitpost in this thread. You haven't posted on topic one time.

because your thread is pointless garbage and deserves nothing more
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Location: fucking curios how do they work

Re: The Curiosity System and What Went Wrong

Postby LadyV » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:34 pm

Tonkyhonk wrote:
AnnaC wrote:The only items that are entirely worthless nowadays are Inkweed mainly

:cry: but, but, but, we need ink to write letters!!!
(a friend of mine uses it a lot for his village management.)


actually I noticed this world you only need to have discovered ink. Once you have you can write without ink in your inventory. I wrote several notes this world without it.
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