by Danno » Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:42 am burgingham wrote:It is hard to find the right balance between permadeath, open PvP and grinding, because it shouldn't be too hard to grind up a char in such a system, but make it too easy and permadeath becomes nothing but a hollow phrase.
It actually seems to work pretty well in this goon run game called "Space Station 13". There's simply no grinding at all. You join the space station, shit goes down, and you get killed half the time. Though in that game there's a chance someone will clone you or turn you into a cyborg, most of the time you're simply dead for the rest of the game or your carcass is thrown into space or something. The round usually lasts 20-70 minutes and then it just starts over.
Of course, Haven & Hearth is a very different game. I like the idea of building up your character to some extent, and I don't think people should just be able to pump out an army of new characters one after another to destroy someone who's been playing longer. Quite frankly, I think losing a 24 hour character investment is plenty enough of a loss, though.
Potjeh wrote:The whole point of this is that raising skills doesn't do much beyond a certain point, so god characters can't exist. They are a cancer upon the game's balance, and the main reason why proper PvP almost never occurs in H&H.
Isn't it sorta like this already? Semi-newbs like myself find it bad when a skill starts getting around 120... It used to cost mere hundreds of LP to level that skill, but now it costs 10k+ for that one level. You could still get that kinda LP in 10 minutes or less if you tried, but I assume it gets pretty brutal when you're reaching the world record highs. I guess if it was worse/essentially worthless in the upper levels, people would still be grinding, just perhaps with more complaints about it being too hard. I think a cap would be more straightforward and make people realize "Okay, this is far enough. What now?"
God characters are definitely preventing me from attempting any kind of uprise in the world's balance. If someone from MiscellaneousVille said they were going to attack AD, Sodom, Constantinople, or any other well established village, you'd simply pat them on the back and say "GOOD LUCK." or "If anyone asks, I don't know you." It should be hard to mess with the top villages, but right now it seems impossible.
Accumulated playing time:
3 weeks, 22 hours, 13 minutes, 55 seconds
I'm sure that's nothing compared to the rest of you, but when you look at it, it's a pretty ridiculous amount of time. 526 hours... Admittedly, I had something closer to 2000 hours on some other game, but still. Even the most long ass single player RPGs will take you under 100 hours to complete. Who would want to lose at least 1 whole week of their life (you don't lose the fun you had, just your grind) to launch some suicidal attack?
Melgui wrote:edit: we have to talk carefully of any kind of "cap" anyway, the concept is very close to "level", and the lack of leveling in this game is in my opinion untouchable.
I'd like if that was the case, but there's a definite difference in power/ability when you compare characters. Even if we don't use the word "level", there are still "newb characters" and "god characters". I'd prefer a PvP system based more like 70% on actual player skill/tactics and 30% on stats rather than 1% skill and 99% stats.
Phizuol wrote:The game is different. It's the players that are the same. You don't need to grind to be successful, but there's always going to be those players that have to do everything "the best". You always see those "What is the best way to..." and "What is the most efficient way to..." threads in every game that has a forum.
Indeed, people will aim for the top in any game that has rankings, levels, or quality in this case. At least there's more freedom in H&H, so you aren't really at a disadvantage for distributing your stats as you please. That always annoyed me in other games that putting a skill/stat point into the "wrong" thing for your "build" would ruin your character. Even if you messed your character up here by getting 100 STR and 20 everything else, you can always fix it.
But in a game that puts grinders at the top, you can only compete with them by doing likewise. The players are largely to blame, but the game is also encouraging this behaviour.
burgingham wrote:Now those systems are outdated anyway and it makes no sense to propose your completely own system to JLo, they will always come up with their own ideas. So why bother talking about it? Just sit and wait until there are changes made on the public server.
Well, you never know what might inspire them to change their plans some. They could turn the game upsidedown by removing permadeath, making every 10 actions be enough to level a stat, letting us climb over walls without armour and plant thickets in our enemies' bases, or even by making us start with all the black skills. This solution, that solution, whatever solution. If they come up with something more fun than grinding LP/quality/stats forever, I'm all for it. Any updates they bring will give us more to do in the game and thusly make it more fun/playable, but I think we need something that would remain fun/challenging. That's why I like competing with players in other games; their skill varies, so you'll never be able to kill everyone easily in one move. Competing here just means grinding for no reason, buying high quality tools from Sodom/Constantinople, then grinding with the best stuff already obtained even though you'll never create better products. As far as competition goes, the newbs lost the day they signed up, and I hope that'll change in some way or another.
rye130 wrote:The reason they are god characters are because they don't die, or atleast die strategically.
I heard the only way to kill them is to cut off their head.
