Xroad alternative solutions

[brohammed]

i think difficulty should be based on the hermit, working large villages are not as common as hermits and small groups

No, because then we'd see even less villages and more hermits. Hermitting is boring. We need to encourage villaging.

[pyrale]

i think difficulty should be based on the hermit, working large villages are not as common as hermits and small groups

No, because then we'd see even less villages and more hermits. Hermitting is boring. We need to encourage villaging.

Well, there would probably much less hermiting if socializing in this game wasn't so dangerous.
The problem was quite well shown with the autolog/autoaggro releases earlier : Everyone reacted on the fact that potential social interactions could be avoided, but no one actually reacted on the main problem : it is not desirable anymore to have social interactions in this game, unless you're one of the players actually looking for fight.

Sadly, I find it quite unlikely that the game moves back to something social, since most of the lobby done on the boards by active posters tends to reinforce the supremacy of raiders and most of the intended/released changes (siege mode, bugfixes and newly implemented features) tend to comply with their desires.

[Potjeh]

You do realize that the current climate is largely the result of vaults being unassailable?

[pyrale]

You do realize that the current climate is largely the result of vaults being unassailable?

There is much more to it than unbreakable vaults. I've already said it before, but the game balance and even the most basic game mechanics makes it almost completely impossible for peaceful villages/small communities to make it. I could develop my point further if you're interested in it, but in my opinion, the vault system is only a minor part of the problem - which is often pointed out here because it's also a source of frustration for hardcore PvP players.

[samual82]

I've personally removed 3 rams from one of my compounds over this christmas break, from three different people

Socializing is god damned dangerous, but to be fair after the logout timer change, i've killed nearly a dozen, and been chased as many times, as long as you keep moving, most of the time the other person cant get you unless you have hideous lag.... or they are an unemployed chinbeard and never give up

villages these days need to be two grids away from any water if they want to remain free of raiders

[burgingham]

You do realize that the current climate is largely the result of vaults being unassailable?

There is much more to it than unbreakable vaults. I've already said it before, but the game balance and even the most basic game mechanics makes it almost completely impossible for peaceful villages/small communities to make it. I could develop my point further if you're interested in it, but in my opinion, the vault system is only a minor part of the problem - which is often pointed out here because it's also a source of frustration for hardcore PvP players.

That is simply not true. The game had a whole other atmosphere before punishing criminals became impossible. Back when people actually had to loose something nobody just raided for the lulz (or died very quickly) and small villages had no problems to thrive often under the protection of the big super powers.

It is the hardcore PvP players who use vaults btw.

[Potjeh]

The problem is precisely that a small village is unassailable. You can't give game-mechanics protection to small villages without giving it to griefers as well, as it is often impossible for a human to distinguish the two, let alone a computer program. Safety should be found in large alliances, and if you don't want to interact with other villages like that then you should go play a single player game.

[pyrale]

Ok, so here's in my opinion the core of the problem :

-There are only several things that can be bought by advanced factions to basic factions : forageable curios, and bulk low-Q equipment.
While this may not sound as a problem, trade has always been one of the best incentives to socialize with others in MMOs. Here in Haven, there is simply no point to trade on a regular basis because you only need so many bear capes, bone saws, or merch. robes, and because you will miss what big villages ask in return. If there was an incentive to trade on a daily/regular basis, and to keep your business partners alive, then there would me a much bigger incentive to build a community.
-The teleportation system makes it very easy to trade with anyone, anywhere. You simply don't have to keep good standing with your neighbours to trade, because your trading services will not be significantly harmed by destroying nearby dwellers.
-The way basic ressources (water/clay/soil) works makes it so that any big power holding top nodes will get a significant advantage over its enemies, both by growing faster and by growing further than its opponents. As a consequence, anyone willing to fight is heavily pushed to join one of the big factions, because the difference between a fighter from a small village and a fighter from a large village is so huge. This makes any alliance draft system for war ineffective.
-The new LP system changed nothing to the superiority of hardcore players and/or boters. While it used to give your character an insane boost, now it means that losing one character isn't relevant anymore to a powerful group, because hopefully, each player can have several operational characters. On the other hand, if you don't play as often, you will probably be limited to one character, which means you're scared off fighting much more easily and if you lose your character, the game's probably over for quite a bit.

All of the above makes it so that, in my opinion, the powerful factions are not forced to collaborate with weaker villages, while at the same time, they get the power to destroy them. As a consequence, building alliances is a direct consequence of the willingness of said big factions to socialize (and which seems to be lacking this world). Now you tell me, if you're one of the harmless guys, why would you put yourself in a situation in which your life depends on the mood of someone you barely know ?

As I conceive it, the vaults are a non-factor, because any big power which doesn't care about their rep (which seems to be the case this world) can simply put the fires in it's own village, gaining protection similar to that of a vault. Vaults are only relevant for smaller factions which want to keep their village out of trouble ; thus it doesn't create a problem, it only widens it.

[Tonkyhonk]

the powerful factions are not forced to collaborate with weaker villages.

that aint true. those who refuse to collaborate with weaker ones at all are stupid enough to choke their own necks.
the point is, many of those who would collaborate with the weak/small towns left the game due to the siege mechanics.

[Flame]

Dudes. In a game where you can do everything without any law, any task and basically people is free to kill for pure lolz or trolling, ther's no way someone can go out his wall trusting people. You can be a noob naked with nothing of value, someone will kill you for the Lolz. So basically ther's no way to be enough sure that no one will kill you if you've nothing usefull to be raided of.

Stay in your claim, wall yourself, end of the game.

Game mechanism can grow or low this fear but ther's no way, a game like this, will see people walk around freely with few chanches to be killed by a random player walking in your way.
Cant be.

You can see game mechanism issues but i think you're a little too much dreamers if you think that a game mechanism can solve a lack of laws and trustworty peoples.