make brick walls able to make with bronze

[burgingham]

I don't say players with access to bronze shouldn't have a possibility to build something better than palisade. I don't like the idea of just making unrealistically large numbers to compensate for the lack of iron. Maybe some kind of wall between palisade and brickwall would be a solution. As it is with bronze armor and bronze swords.
Also, your arguments about trade are not really convincing. There are certain problems with trade atm, but even as a small group you can achieve to find someone with iron and trade with him in your region. If I had the time for it, I would prove it to you.

[Lothaudus]

Option #2 is absolute crap

Option #3: Ask in IRC.

Option #4: Get in a boat, drive around the rivers. Try and find a village near the water with someone active inside. Ask them. This is the hard way (but works fairly well, met a lot of our neighbours that way, even one who pointed out the local clay spot).

I dont say you should have everything.

If that's true, then why do you want a brick wall? Why do I suspect that if you had some other wall as burgingham has suggested, you would still want a brick wall?

But lets say you have to use 1000's of bronze/copper/ whatever, no iron, instead of wrought iron and some steel. Wouldnt that be hard work as well?

Wouldn't using 10,000,000 bits of dirt be hard work too? Let's make everything out of dirt and bunnies!

The point is that people should trade for things. Better quality clay, better quality food, quantities of silk etc... It makes the game more fun and interesting if you can't have everything... or if you have to talk to someone else or negotiate with another village for access to the materials you need.

Should people who have no metal what-so-ever be able to build brick walls too? What should they do?

Its impossible for some people to get iron

This is a game design decision. Not everyone is supposed to have everything. If they do, it gets really boring very quickly.

There are however, many, many people who are willing to trade for whatever your heart desires and those people are not difficult to find.

[Sarge]

I don't say players with access to bronze shouldn't have a possibility to build something better than palisade. I don't like the idea of just making unrealistically large numbers to compensate for the lack of iron. Maybe some kind of wall between palisade and brickwall would be a solution.

ya

[burgingham]

Stone walls have been suggested several times, maybe make them use any kind of metal for the cps and bronze or wrought for the gates. Their soak and hp are somewhere between palisades and bronze in the end.

[Thijssnl]

Agreed, some sort of wall between those two would fix, but on the other hand, I think its easier (and thus has more chance of being implemented) to change brickwalls req's.

Trade def needs some work, we need more roads built.

@ Lothaudus, I didnt say an inbetween wall isnt anything yet eh.

Also, I agree that it shouldnt be made of 1 million dirt, but really, having a mine is rare enough, why the need to have a specific one for a wall.
Trade really needs work before we can use that properly

[arriel]

You're going to cry like a little girl when some of the stuff that's being played with gets implemented. EG: Take a look at clay and mines already. Do you really believe the intent is to give everyone easy access to everything?

If you've got 2 whole days, go for Brodgar but I don't think their trading is setup. You'll find the cartography skill handy if you need to find your way there but most trading is done with neighbours. We've traded several chests of metal for linen and other goods with people who are a super-grid over.

There's also a forum here called "Apples For Oranges" that you might like to check-out.

... but no, keep posting here and requesting that everything be just given to you instead.

Unless you haven`t noticed, New Brodgar was recently lying in ruins, being raided by someone. Guy I traded my bronze there stoped playing because his char was killed. I also cannot help but mention that I`m author to a large part of southern maps on havenandhearth.ru. I guess that makes your arguments much less valid.

You are in a grid where there is 1) iron mine; 2) owners of a mine that actually want to trade. Good for you, your lucky star must have shone or something.

"Apples For Oranges" - yeah, that forum I recently gave advice on maps and how to find other villages to the guy that wanted trading but had no clue where he was... riiiight.

I personally find it silly that we can have lesser quality bronze substitutes for everything except walls. That is inconsistent and plain stupid.

This is a game design decision.

Please get real. That is a goddamn alpha. Design decision... Check announcement forum for more "game decisions that won`t be changed evar".

[Lothaudus]

Unless you haven`t noticed, New Brodgar was recently lying in ruins, being raided by someone.

There are still plenty of other traders around. Sodom still exist for example. Someone may want to correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure they're trading and I don't believe they're all that far from Brodgar.

I also cannot help but mention that I`m author to a large part of southern maps on havenandhearth.ru. I guess that makes your arguments much less valid.

In that case, you should have absolutely no problem finding another trade partner. Have you spoken to your neighbours at all to find out what they have or where they go for items they need?

You are in a grid where there is 1) iron mine; 2) owners of a mine that actually want to trade. Good for you, your lucky star must have shone or something.

Why are you limiting yourself to just a single supergrid for trade? We don't.

"Apples For Oranges" - yeah, that forum I recently gave advice on maps and how to find other villages to the guy that wanted trading but had no clue where he was... riiiight.

As you said yourself, you clearly know where you are and have a map of a vast area. Are you really arguing that it is absolutely impossible to find anyone else with a mine who's willing to trade?

Even with a forum, where others seem to have no problems what-so-ever getting deals?

I personally find it silly that we can have lesser quality bronze substitutes for everything except walls. That is inconsistent and plain stupid.

Village Statues require Steel (Soldier Swords), they are not substitutable for Bronze. The new Strongbox requires Steel and Bronze, doesn't it?

Is your suggestion that everything that requires Wrought / Iron / Steel should be able to be equally made out of Bronze as well, "just to make it fair"? Hell, why not just turn all the Copper and Tin mines into Iron mines and be done with it?

This is a game design decision.

Please get real. That is a goddamn alpha. Design decision... Check announcement forum for more "game decisions that won`t be changed evar".

I'd be surprised if Brick Wall requirements do get changed. I suspect Steel is required for the gates for a very good reason (Although my point here was more about not being able to "have everything" as simply as you want it. If you want a reference, check what happened to clay with the new map. The game is clearly moving in a direction of resources being spread out and things taking a bit more effort to get then "I found a mine, now I have everything I ever need").

[arriel]

You can use banners instead of statues, amirite?

I'd be surprised if Brick Wall requirements do get changed. I suspect Steel is required for the gates for a very good reason (Although my point here was more about not being able to "have everything" as simply as you want it. If you want a reference, check what happened to clay with the new map. The game is clearly moving in a direction of resources being spread out and things taking a bit more effort to get then "I found a mine, now I have everything I ever need").

I`d be surprized if it stays as it is, because I can see no reason for it.
Now it is exactly "I have an Iron mine, so I have everything". Initially, you hold on for any metal. But after you covered basics (mansion, cellar, pens/cauldrons/meat grinders) the only constant sink for bronze is probably the plow. And if you are not "loom-plow-drink-eat" kind of guy, you won`t plow as much either. So when I was prospecting for mines on new grids, I just passed copper and tin mines altogether. They are NOT worth the effort. What little bronze I need, I can trade, and prices are getting cheaper everyday for bronze, because as soon as you covered abovementioned basics, you`ll only need iron in various forms. And those who have iron mines, won`t need your bronze, so you can`t trade it with them. (Your argument of "diversity" would be more valid if there were bronze-specific things of moderate demand, but there are none).

Regarding clay, you can still get low-level clay without having to find that one deposit. It is scarce, but it is there. Equivalent of building a weaker wall with a larger amount of bronze instead of steel. Takes more time and effort, but you can do it. That is the direction I can see the game heading, and "steel only" thing just doesn`t fit in.
Not mentioning the fact that you can`t prevent anyone diggin in your clay deposit, whereas a mine can be quite effectively walled.

As for the trades, villages I found either won`t trade because they are building walls (ie need steel for themselves), have only copper/tin or are abandoned altogether. And I`m not going anywhere near Sodom if I can help it, I`ve seen these kind of players in lots of mmos, I`m not full tradition and won`t risk it.

[Haba]

And I`m not going anywhere near Sodom if I can help it, I`ve seen these kind of players in lots of mmos, I`m not full tradition and won`t risk it.

Funny how you know so much about us even though you've never been near us, don't know any of us and never have actually tried having a conversation with us.

Killing trading partners is totally the Sodomite way.

[Lightning2]

Yeh just flame me without any argumentation.

I support trade, but what if noone lives near you so you cant trade?

...

Oh, trade is the point of the game now?
Please direct me to a market hub that takes less than two days journey from where I am, kktnx.

Will come soon, but now stop asking to make it easier, they changed palisade's health to something fairly reasonable and brick to awesome so it kinda needs effort.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6431

Edit: Holy shit i missed 2 pages, oh well, what I stated above still stands.