Vassalage

[Onionfighter]

The good thing about this game, is that to become strong enough to be able to take out random players, you need to have the support of a village. This means that you have something to lose. This makes your "suicide players" scenario less likely.

Anyway the point of the suggestion was an alternative to raiding. Village affiliations don't have to be announced, and nobody is forcing you to use the suggested system, we just want more government options.

[elkna]

Really, it sounds to me that the people against this are getting stuck on the word "vassalage". It doesn't really have to be a vassalage, it can be something as simple as a few villages going "hey, scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" and grouping up under an official name and offering mutual protection. You're right, we don't REALLY need to add anything because technically we already can make alliances, but why not add the capability in the client? Larger groups working together would also mean better trading capabilities. The game can get lonely enough as it is, why not make it easier to get big groups together?

[Moracin]

Really, it sounds to me that the people against this are getting stuck on the word "vassalage". It doesn't really have to be a vassalage, it can be something as simple as a few villages going "hey, scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" and grouping up under an official name and offering mutual protection. You're right, we don't REALLY need to add anything because technically we already can make alliances, but why not add the capability in the client? Larger groups working together would also mean better trading capabilities. The game can get lonely enough as it is, why not make it easier to get big groups together?

You are looking for the word faction or alliance

And I completely agree with you. Though Vassalage should also be implemented, having several different options would be cool.

Like 2 major towns having an alliance and each town has a few vassal villages. That way you will truly get kingdom type things.

[ricky]

honestly.. this game could be waterever YOU want it to be


the only problem with above is that no one has trust in anyone else, thus making a purposful update for this much needed

[Phalene]

Vassal type relationships sounds good to me- socially speaking I wish there was more for casual players to do, and the sort of environment where people want big kingdoms means an increased chance people of wanting someone to hang around the castle repairing the chairs, feeding the cows and other low intensity puttering around suitable for players who don't want to put more than a few hours into H&H a week.

[Swabian]

Especially given that no faction in this game has ever successfully prevented a raid that I know of. C'mon, if you are going to ask for vassalage you'd better make guarantees that you are making it 100% safe for me. If I paid taxes to you and I got killed or robbed I would, of course feel that I had been robbed by YOU. Being hit by a raid would be a lot less annoying than paying taxes and not getting the services those taxes represented.

There are many kinds of protection. One is the passive kind, like the existence of a police force or a military that hasn't fought any wars. It deters people, or rather, small groups of people. The threat of retribution- sustained organized retribution usually keeps the small potatoes away. Up against an equal or greater power, it's unlikely to stop them. A request to for a 100% guarantee that you will be protected and safe from raids is an unreasonable request. No one aside from God can do that. Even if jorb coded it in, someone might still be able to find a way to harass you. They can only offer you greater protection, not absolute protection.
It's not that it matters though. villages in the medieval ages, and arguably in the modern world swear allegiance not because they are seeking protection under another's military wing, but because they either comply, or they disappear off the face of the earth. Which seems like how most of the negotiations will likely go if this goes ahead.

Vasselage would also most likely require a commitment on the part of the vassel as opposed to a one time payment. So if I want your protection I am locked in to paying so many taxes per week? Or putting in some many hours on your walls/roads? Chances are it is an unwillingness or unability to commit that seriously to the game that has made me vulnerable in the first place.

Well, those offering protection could always just take the stuff from you without asking, and make sure those that don't join them are no longer a threat.

Speaking of commitment, what is my guarantee that you won't quit or get killed? It's one thing in real life where I know that your options are to get up in the morning and get to work, or to die, but this is a game and players come and go. You might decide to get up in the morning and actually leave the house and get some fresh air one day, instead of logging on. So far the three enduring factions in the game are the Goons, Wayneville and Bottleneck. But none of these has so far demonstrated enough invulnerability that I think their fighting force would survive a skermish as defenders. If I sign up to be a vassal what are the chances there will be enough fighters left after the first wave of attacks to defend me from the second?

Absolutely none. Therefore, it is in everybody's best interest to attack first.

It's also worth mentioning, unfortunately, that there are a lot of good players who are frankly total jerks when it comes to social skills. Your overlord is very possibly going to be someone with the kind of personality flaws that makes interacting with them as attractive as a date with Jeffrey Dahmer. Yeah, I know you can't get through boot camp if you can't take the hazing, but in this case logging in to find my fields sown with salt, my timber house burned, my cattle slaughtered and myself in the character creation room is easily the more pleasing experience.

It's a rare case where you have only one person leading a bunch of people. Most states today, as well as groups back then, are governed by a bunch of people. Yes, there are heads of state, and monarchs, but they do not retain power without the support of a good many talented people and people who will help them project their power and keep the peace. Most also have sociable representatives and speakers.
Besides, if you are in a group with a lot of people and your new alien overlords are looking around looking for someone to make a demonstration out of, it's unlikely to be you.

[ThirdEmperor]

I think this is a great idea.

There should probably be some way for peons automaticly send scents to their leaders, so the criminals can be hunted down.