Wildcats > Tame > Cats

[Avalik]

@ Potjeh

I believe wildcats are African? And we seem to be in a "Canadian wilderness" kind of deal, so cougars/lynxs/bobcats seem to fit better with the geography.

@ DatOneGuy

The reason I thought it'd be okay to suggest it is because we will (apparently) be having wolf taming, and we already have auroch taming, both incredibly unrealistic with the method we have, and both large animals. I mean, aurochs are animals that went extinct in the 1600's that magically turn into a different species at the pull of a rope within an hour. Realistic? Yeah, well, it isn't more unrealistic for a cougar to turn into a cat at the pull of a rope. None of this taming is, because it takes years and years ... especially with them magically turning into a different species within an hour.

Also I've petted and played with a tame lion (IRL) before, so it hasn't "never happened". I mean, horse? Cat? Dog? Bird? Rat? Tamed animals, my friend. It's happened tons of times. Ever rode an elephant? Or see the trained belugas and orcas in the aquarium? Those are some large animals. It's obviously not "impossible" and "never happened before".

@ General board

Alright then, seems you guys don't like the ideas the cat boost would be. What about what Potjeh suggested, and bringing rats, fish, dead rabbits and chickens, and other useless shit back instead? PS: cats can kill rabbits, trust me, I know *shudder*

[Potjeh]

Felis silvestris silvestris is very much a European specie. And the game's setting is Europe (mostly northern and eastern), not Canada.

[Orpheus]

I want a kitty, regardless of what it does. Hell, it could be a decoration or whatever, but I want my kitty! :<

[DatOneGuy]

@ DatOneGuy

The reason I thought it'd be okay to suggest it is because we will (apparently) be having wolf taming, and we already have auroch taming, both incredibly unrealistic with the method we have, and both large animals. I mean, aurochs are animals that went extinct in the 1600's that magically turn into a different species at the pull of a rope within an hour. Realistic? Yeah, well, it isn't more unrealistic for a cougar to turn into a cat at the pull of a rope. None of this taming is, because it takes years and years ... especially with them magically turning into a different species within an hour.

Also I've petted and played with a tame lion (IRL) before, so it hasn't "never happened". I mean, horse? Cat? Dog? Bird? Rat? Tamed animals, my friend. It's happened tons of times. Ever rode an elephant? Or see the trained belugas and orcas in the aquarium? Those are some large animals. It's obviously not "impossible" and "never happened before".

Those are all animals that for all intents and purposes are tame-able although over a longer span of time, something that I'm sure I read will eventually happen. (Not sure how ; There will also be a more pacifist way of taming).

Dogs are literally wolves. They are the same exact species. They weren't domesticated easily that's for sure, in fact it took thousands of years, as it did with pretty much all domesticated animals.

The lion you pet wasn't fully tame, no lion is. You can subdue an animal, you can make it seem tame, but it's not fully tame.

Almost all tactics in taming and domesticating animals are things that you would have to reinforce in the moment, something you can't do fully with larger animals (that are of a ferocious nature).

There are many tales such as Christian the Lion, polar bears, there are many citations of partially tame animals. They've never been domesticated, and taming a wild animal will never end in a fully domesticated animal, it's something that takes time and many generations.

[Avalik]

@ Potjeh

Ah, well then, wildcats are probably best to use then. I thought they were African.

@ DatOneGuy

"Dogs are literally wolves. They are the same exact species."

No, they aren't. Canis lupus and canis lupus familiaris. One is a sub-species, meaning they aren't "the exact same" species-wise -- I don't know how you could see a chihuahua and a wolf standing beside each other and say "I can't tell which one is the wolf and which one is the dog, they are exactly the same".

"Almost all tactics in taming and domesticating animals are things that you would have to reinforce in the moment, something you can't do fully with larger animals"

Horse, dog, cattle, pigs, zebu, donkey, water buffalo, camel, muskox, red and fallow deer, asian elephant, llama, alpaca, yak... no large animals have been domesticated, you say? Not to mention, bobcats, lynxes, cougars, and wildcats are all smaller than the wolf... but I don't see you complaining about wolf taming ... or auroch taming... because they are "big".

"and taming a wild animal will never end in a fully domesticated animal, it's something that takes time and many generations."

And yet you don't mind the rest of the taming in the game, where they metamorphisize into a different species at the tug of a rope?

"Those are all animals that for all intents and purposes are tame-able although over a longer span of time"

Wolves were tamed, who's to say (now wildcats, since they would be the better choice) could not be tamed too? Caracals are almost considered domesticated in some areas, now, they used to be considered a type of lynx.

I just have trouble seeing what the big deal is, it doesn't seem that far of a leap in "realism" to domesticate a cat, when we have extinct animals existing with animals that didn't exist in their time range and location magically transforming into a different animal at the tug of a rope. Sure, if the game was realistic in terms of taming and I suggested this, then I can understand the problem. But that isn't the case.

[DatOneGuy]

"Dogs are literally wolves. They are the same exact species."

No, they aren't. Canis lupus and canis lupus familiaris. One is a sub-species, meaning they aren't "the exact same" species-wise -- I don't know how you could see a chihuahua and a wolf standing beside each other and say "I can't tell which one is the wolf and which one is the dog, they are exactly the same".

"Almost all tactics in taming and domesticating animals are things that you would have to reinforce in the moment, something you can't do fully with larger animals"

Horse, dog, cattle, pigs, zebu, donkey, water buffalo, camel, muskox, red and fallow deer, asian elephant, llama, alpaca, yak... no large animals have been domesticated, you say? Not to mention, bobcats, lynxes, cougars, and wildcats are all smaller than the wolf... but I don't see you complaining about wolf taming ... or auroch taming... because they are "big".

"and taming a wild animal will never end in a fully domesticated animal, it's something that takes time and many generations."

And yet you don't mind the rest of the taming in the game, where they metamorphisize into a different species at the tug of a rope?

"Those are all animals that for all intents and purposes are tame-able although over a longer span of time"

Wolves were tamed, who's to say (now wildcats, since they would be the better choice) could not be tamed too? Caracals are almost considered domesticated in some areas, now, they used to be considered a type of lynx.

I just have trouble seeing what the big deal is, it doesn't seem that far of a leap in "realism" to domesticate a cat, when we have extinct animals existing with animals that didn't exist in their time range and location magically transforming into a different animal at the tug of a rope. Sure, if the game was realistic in terms of taming and I suggested this, then I can understand the problem. But that isn't the case.

You just said it yourself they are the same species, they are literally a 'subspecies' because someone thought it relevant enough to distinguish them, they are still the same exact SPECIES because anatomically and what have you they are the same. The only difference being 'bred' for certain traits.

All the large animals you've referenced are docile by nature. Most of the large cats you referenced aren't fully tame. Bobcats are even still feral by nature and are only 'tame' to some extent, certainly not 'domesticated'.

Caracals domesticated? Almost? Where. I'd like to know.

There isn't too much realism in the game, that's true. But walking up to a bear or a lion and whipping him the way you do an auroch isn't going to work. With that said I've also suggested that taming be a longer and more drawn out process that spawns over several generations and that animals have a chance to rebel until you reach a point where they are 'fully tame' which could take up to 30+ generations (30 irl weeks at the least). However, since I was linked to and read up on loftar/jorb's intentions to eventually make taming better I didn't bother continuing to suggest things based on the fact.

As is typical if you do your research, hybrids almost always end in infertile offspring, however wolf/dog 'hybrids' (since you're saying they're not the same species) are indeed fertile and can continue to breed.

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A typical estimate is somewhere near 1,000 years to domesticate an animal, an animal that isn't fully domesticated isn't really fully tame. The earliest domesticated animal is the ferret, you can actually notice a difference even then between their levels of domestication. Even silver foxes that some people like to call tame have only been bred for the past 50 years or so (or so they like to claim ; they actually started with red foxes that were already somewhat tame so the exacts aren't exactly there, no one kept accurate records of animals like foxes and such as they do dogs for lineage and the sort). The difference between a silver fox and a dog is amazing in domestication.

Edit: Removed a lot of textwall bullshit