Revamp the FEP system

[Potjeh]

It's not like crafting jewellery or setting tables can be an emergency.

[Brickbreaker]

For me the problem isn't the finding of food. But instead its how the FEP system affects you for life, therefore there is the need to keep all your stats balanced in case one stat gets more important than the other.

I suggest keeping the current system, but making the stats decay. It shouldn't cause too much trouble to keep up because we eat all the time.
This way switching roles can be done easily and quicker.

[Potjeh]

No, thanks.

[Granger]

I must say after reading through this:

the idea that the size of the FEP bar shoudn't be based on the highest stat but maybe instead on the average of all of them might deserve a discussion.

[Zamte]

The thing that keeps it working is the fact that it's based on the highest stat. If it wasn't, people'd keep a decent stock of random food that is good for hunger management, and scarf down every other single piece of food they find, because there'd really be no downside to eating immediately for as many stats as possible. It'd be especially problematic if it were an average, as you'd actually have an easier time just raising one stat. Even with 1,000 strength, if you've only got 10 in each of the other stats your FEP req would be 133.75. At 2,000 strength, it'd cost 258.75. Having all of your other stats lower makes the average heavily weighted against the stat you're pushing.

[Atherman]

I think the fact that it is based on the highest stat is what ruins the system. People have cupboards of food they never touch and throw food away because it gives a FEP that's too common. How is that beneficial? Who in their right mind in a wilderness setting throws away food because it doesn't make them grow in the right way? I can see the problem with using the average of your stats, for the max of the FEP bar, in boosting a single stat to insane levels. Why not have each stat have its own tiny FEP bar? The whole system of 'chance' is pretty pointless and serves no purpose. If you lincrease each stat levels on its own, people who stick to the same diet will have unbalanced stats and need to vary it if they want to balance their character's potential. Quality can still play a big role in helping raise stats quicker and it will remove the whole "Oh I need to perfectly plan and balance my nutrition or my character can be ruined by later patches."

To say that the FEP works in a complete game is foolish because in what online game do they never stop releasing new content? No, unless Loftar and Jorb state they are never going to add anything to the game ever again, the FEP system is broken. People base their lives around FEP balance grinding and LP grinding when Loftar has said he doesn't want to the game to be about that.


Please Mods, stop stirring up trouble in my thread. If you don't have anything constructive to say then please don't say anything at all. When a Mod sends my thread to Hel because Mods are fighting with people in it, something won't add up. Though I don't like Brickbreaker's idea of stat levels decaying, I think his idea could add something to mine. Instead of stat bars filling up with food and staying that way, they could decay over in-game time until they reach zero, not actually lowering the stat but staying at zero until you fill it up to raise the stat 1 point. This can keep the value of high quality food intact and keep people from just mass eating quality 10 food, as it would take eons to fill the stat bars at higher levels with the risk of the bar emptying.

[Zamte]

I understand what you're saying. I've been getting tired lately of everything released containing 3 different stats, and having con or cha in every single one. I've also been annoyed that every single chicken (they give dex guys) related recipe being mostly perc and usually even more of other stats than dex.

In general the problem seems to be that there is no perfect solution. As much as the "seperate FEP bars" thing could be handy, all it does is turns all food into +stat. There would be absolutely no downside period to eating every piece of food you could find, and the only thing limiting your growth potential is how fast you can find it and how fast you can eat it. The only thing currently really limiting growth, especially after the table addition making hunger reduction less important, is the fact that you have to try not to screw it up. As soon as you remove that element, any version of the system will simply consist of everyone stockpiling as much food as they can find, as fast as they can find it, and powerleveling their stats into oblivion.

Once they change the crafting system to be variable like they wanted, the issues here will be gone. You'll be able to collect food types, and (hopefully) mix and match them to get the stats you want. This will allow you to use up all, or at least most, of your food, and still require thought, but fun thought. I personally would enjoy trying to get the most out of my food supplies if it was variable enough that I always had options given a set of ingredients.

[Potjeh]

People who have cupboards of food they can't touch are people who are poor at planning. Yes, sometimes you'll make some food you don't plan to eat because you want to get rid of some ingredients that are clogging up the storage. But what you do with this food is trade it away to people who do eat it. The game needs all the motivation for player interaction it can get. If you want to be a hermit that's fine, but you don't have some god-given right to get everything that players who live in civilization get. Coordinating with other people is a lot of work, and should be rewarded accordingly.

This leads me to my main reason for being against removing the need to balance stats: you'll be much less likely to trade if you don't need specific food at specific time, but can delay it for however long you want.

I am also very much against the idea of being able to completely re-purpose your character at a whim. You make choices, you live with them. If you want a completely different character, you should start a completely new character. This again goes back to the principle that people should be interdependent, and that a community of specialists should be better than a community of generalists, even though a lone generalist is better than a lone specialist. And frankly, a game where all characters are the same (ie all have balanced stats) sound very boring.

The main problem is that people are not encouraged enough to specialize atm. A character that's pushing just int and cha is utterly worthless in the current incarnation of the game. This doesn't mean that the stats system is somehow faulty - it just means that the game needs more content. Sure, this new content may make your character feel suboptimal, but so what? Please remember that we're all alpha testers here, and thus should be well-aware that new features can completely change the game at any time.

This all being said, I see zero problems with FEP system, in fact I think it's the single best implemented feature in the whole game.

[Brickbreaker]

Well I am struggling to figure out why my idea was a bad one, but in turn maybe you couldn't see why it was a good one.
(Or maybe you guys are sick of the word decay )

So I'll explain my points why I think it's a decent idea:

-It allows specialization since you can't sustain all stats together at once.
-I've decided to mix my ideas with Atherman and propose having an individual bar for all stats.

In general the problem seems to be that there is no perfect solution. As much as the "seperate FEP bars" thing could be handy, all it does is turns all food into +stat. There would be absolutely no downside period to eating every piece of food you could find, and the only thing limiting your growth potential is how fast you can find it and how fast you can eat it.

-Well I'm not sure if this is enough thought for you (the only thought I use with the current system is what one food should I eat until I'm a certain level at desired stat) but decay means you can't just keep eating one chosen food for a week, which as we all know is unrealistic anyway. This means you have to think about your other stats that you want to keep up therefore making multi-stat food even more desirable.

[Potjeh]

And what exactly does the change accomplish?