Animal level's and such

[DigDog]

You're purposefully creating the worst possible scenario in order to try and invalidate his statement.

With that said it's still off, superior training is what makes those ridiculously impossible scenarios, possible. No, you won't win 100% of the time because you know more, but you will have a better chance than the guy who doesn't know as much, and it can indeed decide the fate of whole nations at times.

I agree with you, but only if it comes to combat with almost equally equipped parties who are also almost equal in numbers. If that isn't the case, then your skill is worth nothing. See below.

So I suppose all the effort modern armies spend on marksmanship training is pointless? You should tell them they only need to march the soldiers around a bit to get them used to following orders, then hand out rifles and send them into battle. Think of all the money that can be saved by not wasting ammunition on training!
Whether you're carrying a sword or a rifle, there is no substitute in combat for being able to actually hit your opponent. Unskilled fighters are merely taking up space on the battlefield.

Of course you have to have a certain skill level to be of any use, but that's not the point. Fact is that one very skilled fighter still loses if he is outnumbered or if the enemy has superior equipment. You could be the best fencer in the world but you would still lose against a pawn with a crossbow.

[spectacle]

Once again it seems that modern armies know something you don't, as they don't stop training soldiers after they've gained basic combat skills. The average US infantryman today is as well trained as WW2 commandoes.

But, this discussion has gone far off topic, so I'll lay it to rest.

[Jackard]

How does any of that justify combat skill values? All I'm hearing so far is 'hurf durf raise a number'

[Potjeh]

Most of that training is about maintaining discipline under pressure and acting in coordination with your squad. I'm sure you could find plenty of civilians that rival marines when it comes to marksmanship, but they'd be no match for them because they don't have their discipline or teamwork.

[DatOneGuy]

How does any of that justify combat skill values? All I'm hearing so far is 'hurf durf raise a number'

Actually I'm arguing quite the contrary, that your knowledge of the system should be what decides the battle, so that numbers are useless. Your actual knowledge is what should decide the outcome, not some random number you raised by putting time in your character.

[spectacle]

If raising the numbers of your character didn't matter when fighting, then nobody would ever use their mains in combat. Armies of disposable soldier alts would be the order of the day, and with the stakes in combat much lower players would be much more likely to engage in combat simply for the lulz.

[sabinati]

well you'd still need to learn the combat skills and get decent stats i guess so they wouldn't be complete throwaways

[rye130]

If raising the numbers of your character didn't matter when fighting, then nobody would ever use their mains in combat. Armies of disposable soldier alts would be the order of the day, and with the stakes in combat much lower players would be much more likely to engage in combat simply for the lulz.

This.

We need a way to keep pvp at the same level of risk without it just being a comparison of players grinding ability. If you can just use alts that no effort has been put in making as combat tools, the risk is lost and therefore has no meaning.

[Jackard]

Actually I'm arguing quite the contrary, that your knowledge of the system should be what decides the battle, so that numbers are useless. Your actual knowledge is what should decide the outcome, not some random number you raised by putting time in your character.

My reply was to Spectacle, not you.

If raising the numbers of your character didn't matter when fighting, then nobody would ever use their mains in combat. Armies of disposable soldier alts would be the order of the day, and with the stakes in combat much lower players would be much more likely to engage in combat simply for the lulz.

*yawns*

Oh just look at the time, its the fearmongering "disposable alt" scenario again. You think your point hasn't been brought up and shot down before? It doesn't fly - you would still need to gear, stat, train and field this supposed army.

[DatOneGuy]

You should require some effort, but not as much as now. Your village's 'level' should help determine a battle too, as it stands now, while a good sword matters, it doesn't matter anywhere even close to as much as 50 more Melee points. As it stands the only thing you'd consider to make an alt a 'usable fighter' are thane's, and those will be nerfed, as they deserve with all jewelry next world.


I think we did get a bit removed from the central point, although it's still connected to it. As it stands right now, we have animal level (the challenge) with a cap on it, but we have our skill values (the goal) with no limit, the goal gets progressively harder as you go on and you need more and more of each 'challenge' to get to the next 'goal', however there is no difference in the 'challenge', the challenge doesn't get harder, doesn't get smarter, doesn't even become stronger and provide more towards your goal, it just starts becoming meaningless grind at the end-tier of most MMOs where you are killing the same monster for that next rare drop or to get to the next mostly meaningless level.


There are two big problems here:
1)The work of the singular person far outweighs the work of the village. You are much better off grinding 500 Melee than you are working towards 500 smithing for jewelry, one person has to do the job, and while everyone pitching helps a little, it starts to lose it's worth the higher you go as it's harder to get that one more melee out of it.
2)Swords and such, 'equip-ables' while easily produced do not even come close to making a good soldier, you need those stats and skill values, specifically the skill values, because stats ARE (for now) extremely easy to raid.
3)So much is placed on the skill values that you will typically see wariors classed solely by their stats, a 300~ melee warrior being average, a 500+ warrior being 'seasoned', and an 800+ melee warrior being top notch.

I don't like it, I do 'kinda' like combat stats, kinda, but there is way too much importance placed on them. We need a lot more importance placed on both the village's contributions, and (not needed, but I'd like to see) your personal beliefs.

These things may help alleviate the problem and the person who has 500 melee isn't honestly THAT much greater than the person with 300 melee, if the person with 300 melee is from a good village who produces high quality stuff for their warriors. I'd like to see a change to how animals give LP, a raise to it (in some fashion or another) or more animals even if just variants of the current ones ,or more levels to them. All I really want is a way that LP isn't so friggin' annoying.

Oh and I forgot to mention once you can 1hko them , it becomes more about finding animals than killing them, animals are way too hard to find, especially bears.