Wall jump exploit: sipmlest solution.

[Sarchi]

Ja, mein fuhrer.

[serpentyngallery]

Another option that just came to me is, make Q an operational factor in the battering rams, say a battering ram make from q100 materials would half twice or three times as much "range" (damage it can take) or even a small buff to the base damage it deals. Q matters in almost every other aspect of the game, why not this too?

[Sarchi]

Another option that just came to me is, make Q an operational factor in the battering rams, say a battering ram make from q100 materials would half twice or three times as much "range" (damage it can take) or even a small buff to the base damage it deals. Q matters in almost every other aspect of the game, why not this too?

Why not just second, stronger battering ram? Make it take a couple steel if you want to make sure it only gets used for serious business.

Well, both require a battering ram to dry, which means you still have to camp the ram. Period. Otherwise the victim would just warp outside his walls, destroy it, and warp back in.

There really is no fix for rams, and everyone that knows siege tactics knows to wall the ram in near the wall with a gate to access the ram so it's harder for the victim to just destroy it without much effort.

Either you just do away with drying time and allow griefing to reach entire new heights (no one can scout their walls 24/7, every minute) and allow people to easily ram a place down or you make rams not decay when being transported. The latter just lets you make rams at your village and load them onto rafts or something and you're back to the same problem as point #1.

Really, just add different siege weapons. At least add some variety so it isn't as boring as fuck to camp a ram.

[Windforce]

Is it so hard? Make Ladders.

Ladders were always the simpliest solution to any wall. Even walls as tall as Helmsdeep.

Or if u want, just make Rams go dmg to 3 tiles (lesser to the 2 adjacent ones of course) when ramming.

[DatOneGuy]

Changing crossroads so that you can easily be reverse-griefed isn't the answer though.

The moment you start adding in minor but constant annoyances in order to combat 'abuse' problems is the moment games start getting really bad, really boring, and really annoying.

Crossroads are going eventually, so just make sure that the next system isn't as bad, for the time being we all have our ways of protecting against this (solving the problem a large deal). A good example is having a center city, however big, but you predetermine exactly how large your city will be, around that city you create a wall 50 tiles (minimum) in each direction, this allows:
1)No rangers to ever look in or shoot in, if anyone ever even got past the first fortification they'd have to be lucky enough to catch someone online to kill before we warp over and kick his ass.
2)Consider a second loop of such a fortification

Problems with said proposition: A predetermined size for a town IMO is around 75~100 players that are semi-active (Only weekends, or about once a week, enough to be around, be fun, and contribute to things like mining and making trees, but not enough to be considered truly active [regularly raising character stats, helping out with everything, on every 2~3 days at least] ). With this said with a Sodom design of each plot 50x50 (what's considered a good size forsomeone with crops, cows, and doing cheese), 8 wide streets (works well in Sodom no need for larger) and 13 for larger streets (middle streets) which is what we have. Since we're considering a much larger audience, the main MAIN street will be much grander (and paved in gold).

I don't think an area exists here without cliffs or rivers majorly fucking everything big enough. I fucking hate cliffs, with a passion.

edit: yeah that was a bit of a rant towards the end, was trying to think of how big a space a perfect village is, and how futile it is to try given current cliff and river dispersement. Ladders is a good idea, as are taller walls that ladders are made for, but this requires either:
1)Constant supervision which is the reason they probably weren't in the first place I'm guessing, as rams are 24hours despite the fact they need not be.

[Sarchi]

Is it so hard? Make Ladders.

Ladders were always the simpliest solution to any wall. Even walls as tall as Helmsdeep.

Anything that requires being able to break into a city without several hours' notice at least still allows griefing to reach insane new heights. With rams, you only won't be able to spot them if you're being careless.

[Onionfighter]

The problem is that everyone has different expectations of how walls should work.

People peacefully living in an isolated village generally feel walls are too weak when their village is raided by a stronger, more well equipped village. They want walls to essentially be impervious.

Larger, more political villages want some way to get through walls for a variety of reasons: first, it is really annoying to have to go through the same amount of trouble to catch a well planned petty thief as it does to raid a defended village. It should also be possible exercise power over weaker, less prepared villages. This, however, must be balanced against being able to defend yourself.

Add in the all or nothing nature of most raids- once you are in, you can destroy just about everything in the village. If you are at war, you want to grind your enemies into the ground because they may just come back to fight you later, so you will do your best to destroy as much infrastructure as possible.

Thieves probably want a system that will allow them to take advantage of others, but will also let them be protected.

Griefers will just adapt to any flaws in a way that allows them to punish other players. Right now walls are pretty strong, so people get walled in. If walls get too weak they will rob people.

So the main problem is that no system will satisfy everyone. Perhaps an acceptable set of game mechanics could be found by first coming up with an idea of what kind of gameplay is desirable.

[niltrias]

Let's not forget the problems with ridge abuse with the vaults.

[DatOneGuy]

Ridges are fail on almost every level and other than hearth vaults were are imo just abuse of cliffs, are set as nothing more than an annoyance to city builders, and piss me off to no end

[burgingham]

Why not make cr work like hearthfires and let them have no bounding box. I don't see much griefing potentital for that.

People aren't using rams because walljumping is possible. If walls couldn't be jumped, you could just build your own walls around your ram to protect it.

The defender can just build another wall around your wall. We have had this happen on several occasions.